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Old 06-05-2007, 12:19 AM   #26
antonis paps
antonis paps's Avatar
Location: greece
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 56
Re: Best randori

Raul Rodrigo wrote: View Post
Really? The best randori I've seen is by Gozo Shioda and he had no qualms about hitting uke in the face with a heel palm strike. I've seen (on film) Mitsugi Saotome level his ukes with punches. You're telling me these two direct students of O sensei haven't gotten very far? Kanshu Sunadomari also used atemi in randori.

Just this Saturday an instructor from Aikikai Hombu was teaching us how to counter a shomen strike with a heel palm strike to the face. Its a pity, then, that he hasnt gotten very far.

Well first I don't think anyone should be considered a "luminary of aikido" I don't like this; "oh he was o-senseis student...oh he is god" stuff.

(Irrelevant.. and given I've heard rumors that saotome has killed a man,..now it's not very hard for me to believe..and if true and covered up..well he failed actually)

To continue:
Atemi can be used in randori, but I dont think it's the purpose.
I believe it should be the last choice, given the circumstances.
Thats not the aikido choice.
To me using atemi shows a weakness,
the incapability of doing something else at the momment.

Otherwise; oh let's do randori..oh lets atemi everyone guys.

Τὰ πάντα ῥεῖ , What Flows, Is.
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Old 06-05-2007, 12:25 AM   #27
raul rodrigo
Location: Quezon City
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
Re: Best randori

I too came to aikido from a judo background, so I know something about noncompliance in a randori setting. And I am all for realistic, committed attacks, not uke flopping over at tori's slightest gesture. But the point remains; if the ukes up the stakes in a three man attack by not going down when tori has already clearly indicated that he has the throw or the strike in place, then tori has to up the ante as well. And at that point, someone is going to come to grief. I was at a judo tournament once where a competitor resisted osoto gari even though his opponent clearly had him cold. The noncompliance resulted in him breaking his arm. It looked like he had two elbows. a rokudan had to set the bone.

So fine, lets take randori to the edge, let's do our best to keep it honest and alive, not some choreographed flopping around. But at some point, uke has to know when to give it up and go down.
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Old 06-05-2007, 12:10 PM   #28
Gerardo Torres
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 197
Re: Best randori

The best aikido randori I have ever seen:
The one included as a special feature in Volume 2 Issue 2 of the Ikazuchi Dojo: Virtual Training DVD series. In this video Matsuoka Sensei performs a 3-uke randori in a demonstration given at an L.A. dojo opening in 1994. The mat area was very small and spectators were standing or sitting all around the edge of the mat (as a result Matsuoka Sensei had to keep the uke from crashing into spectators; the fact that he kept throwing the uke into a safe place speaks volumes of his ability). Matsuoka Sensei was able to move in this tiny space with incredible precision, speed and flow, always into the right places and at the right time. His entries (irimi) and timing were impeccable. For me, this video represents an ideal goal of aikido randori training. Note: the uke in this video were very good as well; they were committed, had good falling skills and reacted properly to atemi and throws. I personally find the ukemi during randori as challenging as the nage role.
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