Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Non-Aikido Martial Traditions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-25-2007, 04:38 PM   #26
Haowen Chan
Location: Pittsburgh
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 91
United_States
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

I recommend if people want to know more about the difference between kumdo and kendo, go ask on the kendo-world forums.

There's some really iffy korean styles of sword arts that people may be confusing with proper sport kumdo which is equivalent ot kendo (with minor reigi differences). Haedong Gumdo in particular is not held in particularly high regard.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2007, 05:40 PM   #27
pugtm
Dojo: DFWKIK
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

thats also true many people call what they do kendo. It's an advertising gimmick.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2007, 06:39 PM   #28
p00kiethebear
 
p00kiethebear's Avatar
Dojo: Tonbo Dojo
Location: Bainbridge Island WA
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 374
United_States
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
that would probably a koryu (iai/battojutsu) kendo is a shinai only discipline with bokken for kendo kata.
No, these were events in Korea being demonstrated by Koreans under the name of 'kum do'

Being a battojutsu practitioner myself. I was very interested their styles' history. Their techniques also included what i might call... just weird. (vertical jumps in the air before cutting dotan.)

I've seen lots of good tameshigiri to come out of korea and these guys were some of the best. I'm positive that they called what they were doing 'kumdo'

Perhaps the term is thrown around more loosely to describe many types of korean swordsmanship.

Last edited by p00kiethebear : 04-25-2007 at 06:44 PM.

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2007, 07:00 PM   #29
pugtm
Dojo: DFWKIK
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

thats also possible but jumping in the air is something kendoka never do! With tachi all the power comes from your feet and groin so disconnecting them from the ground is stupid. Also Kenjutsu is mainly based on cutting techniques with high mobility and aggressiveness. Once you jump you are committed and cannot change direction until your feet touch the ground. It's due to weird fancy stuff like this during the shogunate that caused kendo to be developed.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2007, 08:48 PM   #30
Kent Enfield
 
Kent Enfield's Avatar
Location: Oregon, USA
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 224
United_States
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
Avi Feygin wrote: View Post
For example in kendo for a hit to qualify as a point in shiai it has to have spirit and intent. For kumdo if it lightly taps the men it counts.
You don't actually have much experience with "kumdo" people, do you? With the exception of some reigi, using blue and white to mark competitors, and pronouncing everything in Korean, kumdo that's affiliated with the ZNKR/IKF is identical to kendo. I've practiced with several, and they were all only as different as someone from a different dojo always is.

Quote:
kendo is a shinai only discipline with bokken for kendo kata.
Somebody better tell my instructor he's teaching it wrong. The regimen I for my group back in the States was bokuto for suburi, bokuto for kihon, and bokuto for kata, then doing shinai and bogu work. Every practice.

How much bokuto work one does will depend on one's instructor, unsurprisingly.

Kentokuseisei
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2007, 08:59 PM   #31
Kent Enfield
 
Kent Enfield's Avatar
Location: Oregon, USA
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 224
United_States
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
Nathan Gidney wrote: View Post
No, these were events in Korea being demonstrated by Koreans under the name of 'kum do'.
Sounds like Haedong/Haidong Kumdo, which is defintely not the same as "kumdo" affiliated with the IKF (the largest "kumdo" group in Korea).

While these days, if you say "kendo", everyone assumes that you ZNKR shinai kendo, the term is not exclusive or specific. In Korea, "kumdo" is still pretty vague with regard to what sword art it is referring to. Guess what Koreans call what the Japanese do. Guess what Japanese call what Koreans do.

It's not much different than Japanese in the first part of the 20th century, when the Butokukai decided to start calling it kendo instead of kenjutsu, referring to things like "Ono-ha Itto Ryu kendo" or "Jikishinkage Ryu kendo".

Kentokuseisei
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2007, 10:00 PM   #32
pugtm
Dojo: DFWKIK
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
Kent Enfield wrote: View Post
You don't actually have much experience with "kumdo" people, do you? With the exception of some reigi, using blue and white to mark competitors, and pronouncing everything in Korean, kumdo that's affiliated with the ZNKR/IKF is identical to kendo. I've practiced with several, and they were all only as different as someone from a different dojo always is.
No but that is what my shodan and hachidan sensei told me when i asked.

Quote:
Kent Enfield wrote: View Post
Somebody better tell my instructor he's teaching it wrong. The regimen I for my group back in the States was bokuto for suburi, bokuto for kihon, and bokuto for kata, then doing shinai and bogu work. Every practice.
Well i learned kihon with a shinai and also do suburi with a shinai but i guess you could do it with bokuto
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2007, 08:17 AM   #33
pugtm
Dojo: DFWKIK
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

oh yeah speaking of bokuto do i need to bring mine when i sign up for class?
Also is there a big difference between styles? Or is it like with Iai where it's just another interpratation?

Last edited by pugtm : 04-26-2007 at 08:21 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2007, 06:01 PM   #34
Kent Enfield
 
Kent Enfield's Avatar
Location: Oregon, USA
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 224
United_States
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
Avi Feygin wrote: View Post
Or is it like with Iai where it's just another interpratation?
Um, there are many different styles of iai, and many of them are quite different.

Kentokuseisei
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2007, 06:23 PM   #35
David Humm
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 269
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

I study Aikikai Aikido - All Japan Kendo Federation Kendo and Muso Shinden Ryu Iaido and find all three compliment each other.

The problem is compartmentalising the differences to keep each art form true but, discovering, understanding and therefore benefiting from the similarities in the principles of each art is an excellent experience.

Briefly: I've found that iai being pretty much a solo endeavour has greatly improved my tenacity and will power, aikido and its ideology has developed my awareness of others, and kendo has developed my martial spirit and enabled me to test myself on so many levels.

Regards
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2007, 07:13 PM   #36
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,032
United_States
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
Nathan Gidney wrote: View Post
All the kumdo I've seen has involved live blades and tameshigiri. Nothing like kendo. Was I seeing something else?
You were seeing something else.

there are groups that do cutting competitions and there is some stuff around where they get acrobatic and flashy like some of the sillier karate demonstrations that have been going on for years. Some videos of stuff like this are possible to come across on places like youtube and very likely mislabeled.

Last edited by kironin : 04-26-2007 at 07:16 PM.

  Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2007, 10:36 PM   #37
pugtm
Dojo: DFWKIK
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

so about my bokken first of all do i bring it with me to my first class?
second is an iai/kendo kata bokken ok for aikido?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2007, 01:03 AM   #38
Kent Enfield
 
Kent Enfield's Avatar
Location: Oregon, USA
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 224
United_States
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
Avi Feygin wrote: View Post
so about my bokken first of all do i bring it with me to my first class?
second is an iai/kendo kata bokken ok for aikido?
These are questions for your instructor, not us. Sorry.

Kentokuseisei
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2007, 06:18 AM   #39
Ecosamurai
 
Ecosamurai's Avatar
Dojo: Takagashira Dojo
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 519
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
Avi Feygin wrote: View Post
so about my bokken first of all do i bring it with me to my first class?
second is an iai/kendo kata bokken ok for aikido?
Well, for your first class I'd say just bring yourself but it really depends on your instructor as Kent said.

For myself I could've turned up at the kendo dojo and worn my keikogi and hakama but decided not to, instead I just went in gym clothes. I suppose it was a bit of an attempt at 'beginners mind' on my part. I know that sometimes when people turn up to my aikido lessons wearing a keikogi I will immediately try to figure out what they've done before and how good they are so that I can understand what they need from me as an instructor (or occasionally what they can teach me as a guest!).

You might have a similar thing happen if you bring a bokken and it'd be a bit odd if the aikido instructor started to 'correct' your kendo. Which he or she wouldn't really be doing they'd instead just be showing you aikiken but if you're a beginner and you bring your kendo with you into the aikido dojo (and most people going from one art to another do this, including me) then it will likely be quite frustrating for you in the initial stages.

I'd say best to leave the bokken at home for now, it's always there if you need it, and if the instructor does want you to do some aikiken at your first session then they usually have a spare around the place anyway.

Regards

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2007, 06:20 AM   #40
Ecosamurai
 
Ecosamurai's Avatar
Dojo: Takagashira Dojo
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 519
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
Dave Humm wrote: View Post
I study Aikikai Aikido - All Japan Kendo Federation Kendo and Muso Shinden Ryu Iaido and find all three compliment each other.
Lol, we have to get together and exchange notes sometime Dave Me: Ki-aikido, All Japan Kendo & MJER. Except I'm still quite new at the MJER.

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2007, 01:55 PM   #41
Franco
Location: Austin, TX
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 29
United_States
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Mike Haft:

So Ki-Aikido and Ki Society are two different things?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2007, 04:07 PM   #42
pugtm
Dojo: DFWKIK
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

i see ok thanks for the advice everyone. Another question how do rank work? what i mean is do you need a certain rank to learn different waza or is just that you need to be able to do them well and are capable? for example in kung-fu different belts are needed to learn different forms and you will not be allowed to learn those forms before you get the belt even if you are capable enough to learn them. is it the same in aikido?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2007, 10:25 PM   #43
p00kiethebear
 
p00kiethebear's Avatar
Dojo: Tonbo Dojo
Location: Bainbridge Island WA
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 374
United_States
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
i see ok thanks for the advice everyone. Another question how do rank work? what i mean is do you need a certain rank to learn different waza or is just that you need to be able to do them well and are capable? for example in kung-fu different belts are needed to learn different forms and you will not be allowed to learn those forms before you get the belt even if you are capable enough to learn them. is it the same in aikido?
Generally, the answer is no. Though I may be wrong, in my area, the instructors teach all techniques to all ranks saving some exception for more advanced weapons training.

From your first class you'll probably be doing (or attempting to do) everything the highest ranked members are doing.

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2007, 10:30 PM   #44
pugtm
Dojo: DFWKIK
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 32
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

thank g-d i hate places like that were they refuse to teach you until you pay for an expensive belt test... Usually only chinese styles though iv'e not really had any experience with this taking any budo.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2007, 08:20 AM   #45
Ecosamurai
 
Ecosamurai's Avatar
Dojo: Takagashira Dojo
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 519
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
Franco Cuminato wrote: View Post
Mike Haft:

So Ki-Aikido and Ki Society are two different things?
Yes. Also no. Ki Society is the parent organisation of all ki-aikido. Not all ki-aikido is Ki Society.
For example, I'm not nor have I ever been a member of the ki society and yet I study ki-aikido.

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2007, 08:36 AM   #46
Haowen Chan
Location: Pittsburgh
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 91
United_States
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Franco:

Here's a list of the different organisations who practice Tohei-derived aikido.... the distinguishing factors being ki-tests, ki-development exercises, and usually some version of his 4 principles of maintaining ki.

http://www.aikiweb.com/wiki/Styles#K..._no_Kenkyu_Kai

They all practice some form of Tohei-derived aikido, and all the organisations are distinct bodies not under the jurisdiction of the Ki Society. Despite the various (minor) differences in emphasis in what they teach, I believe the variation in individual sensei teaching style is greater than the variation in the differences between the systems.

Last edited by Haowen Chan : 04-28-2007 at 08:41 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2007, 01:31 PM   #47
David Humm
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 269
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
Lol, we have to get together and exchange notes sometime Dave Me: Ki-aikido, All Japan Kendo & MJER. Except I'm still quite new at the MJER.

Mike
Hi Mike, sure any time. I host several seminars at my dojo through the year so any time you fancy gimme a shout. Bring bogu and iaito as well.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2007, 09:38 PM   #48
HL1978
Dojo: Aunkai
Location: Fairfax, VA
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 415
United_States
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
Nathan Gidney wrote: View Post
No, these were events in Korea being demonstrated by Koreans under the name of 'kum do'

Being a battojutsu practitioner myself. I was very interested their styles' history. Their techniques also included what i might call... just weird. (vertical jumps in the air before cutting dotan.)

I've seen lots of good tameshigiri to come out of korea and these guys were some of the best. I'm positive that they called what they were doing 'kumdo'

Perhaps the term is thrown around more loosely to describe many types of korean swordsmanship.
I had the opportunity to train recently with some kumdo practicioners. they were quite honest as to where their kata came from, with znkr setei being admitted as being seitei, and korean kata as korean kata. They have to demonstrate seitei in additon to korean kata and shinai (i forget the korean word for it) kendo for promotion purposes.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2007, 09:32 PM   #49
kironin
 
kironin's Avatar
Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
Location: Houston,TX
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,032
United_States
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
Yes. Also no. Ki Society is the parent organisation of all ki-aikido. Not all ki-aikido is Ki Society.
For example, I'm not nor have I ever been a member of the ki society and yet I study ki-aikido.

Mike
Still Mike's a heretic in several ways.

Not following the TRUE Ki-Aikido and
even worse doing MJER instead of MSR Iaido !


aaaack!

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2007, 06:52 PM   #50
Ecosamurai
 
Ecosamurai's Avatar
Dojo: Takagashira Dojo
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 519
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: kendo, Iaido and aikido

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote: View Post
Still Mike's a heretic in several ways.

Not following the TRUE Ki-Aikido and
even worse doing MJER instead of MSR Iaido !


aaaack!
I know, come to the dark side, you know you want to..... bwahahaahahaaaa

Even worse, I do Kendo too

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Iaido and Aikido Ecosamurai Weapons 6 07-01-2006 02:43 AM
Iaido and Aikido fullerfury General 6 01-07-2004 06:47 AM
Event: Aikido & Iaido Seminar in Burbank, CA AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 10-27-2003 02:45 PM
Way of the Warrior on Discovery timcraig General 58 09-13-2003 12:18 PM
Seminar/Event: Aikido & Iaido Exhibition in Los Angeles AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 04-30-2002 11:03 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:59 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate