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Old 05-03-2007, 03:57 PM   #1
pugtm
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"Aikido is for wusses": a response?

I am not taking aikido yet but i plan to start in the next few months.So i was talking to a friend who takes Hapkido but a more aggressive version made up by a former bouncer who made it way more violent. So i was talking to someone who was interested also in taking aikido and this person taking aikido said aikido is for wusses. Your response? I think there is something to his statement that shows his lack of spirit and also ignorance. In my opinion it takes more courage to not just violently lash out, but i thought i would put it to aikidoka for your opinion or response or rebuttal.
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Old 05-03-2007, 04:06 PM   #2
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

Hahahahaha.
Funny stuff.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:04 PM   #3
Aristeia
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

maybe it is. And maybe that's a good thing. Why to something that is only for bad asses. Bad asses are already bad, they don't need training. It's the "wussies" who most need martial arts - no? Or were you commenting on effectiveness?

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:07 PM   #4
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

Quote:
Avi Feygin wrote: View Post
So i was talking to someone who was interested also in taking aikido and this person taking aikido said aikido is for wusses. Your response?
IMHO, it sounds like a statement made from an ignorant and arrogant spectator who never spent much time on the mat with someone who really knew Aikido.

OTOH, the way Aikido is often practiced, he is correct.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:42 PM   #5
pugtm
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

sorry correction to my post. Person taking hapkido said "aikido is for wusses".
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:47 PM   #6
aikidoc
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

2nd Lynn.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:54 PM   #7
Ecosamurai
 
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

Quote:
Avi Feygin wrote: View Post
sorry correction to my post. Person taking hapkido said "aikido is for wusses".
Sounds like good old fashioned martial posturing to me. Ignore it.

I'll give you another example of the posturing I'm talking about. You do Kendo right? couple of weeks ago, after keiko we were putting away our bogu and stuff. Some people came in to the room we use after our time was up and set up the badminton net and some other guys came and put the table-tennis table up and started playing.

One of the table tennis guys went off somewhere (presumably to get some table tennis balls or something), the other guy stood watching us in our keikogi and hakama packing up our bogu.

When I next glanced in his direction I saw him practicing kicks, high fancy ones. Clearly doing it for our benefit trying to show that he too was a martial artist.

Quite what makes someone so insecure I'm not sure but IME they often tend to come out with statements that sound like the one your friend made. Often strangely critical of other arts that they haven't really tried and know little about. I've encountered so many people who say things like 'yeah but aikido doesn't do this or that' only to have me do that to them.

One of my favourite quotes is from a student of Chiba Sensei (does anyone know the name of the person in question by the way?): "He said there were no strikes in aikido, so I hit him again"

Regards

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:17 PM   #8
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

Aikido is an art for people who don't care what the guys in Hapkido think.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:25 PM   #9
Qatana
 
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

We have a shodan in our dojo who is a Grand Master in hapkido. He doesn't think aikido is wussie at all!

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:42 PM   #10
Lorien Lowe
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

aikido isn't for people who fight for social status.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:59 PM   #11
Aikibu
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

Are you a wuss? Or...do you wonder if you're a wuss for taking Aikido???

Among the Aikido posters here are Combat Veterans...Law Enforcement Officers... Ex- Thugs...
Housewives...Ninjas...Vikings...Tranvestites...and ALL OF THEM can kick that guy's butt. So...if you are a wuss and you want to learn how not be be you've come to the right place.

William Hazen
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Old 05-03-2007, 07:38 PM   #12
pugtm
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

here's were i stand on this issue. I have great respect for any true martial art and anyone who takes it seriously. I'm not training to kill someone i just want to be better than i am and also enjoy myself. otherwise id be practicing with firearms and bayonets. that story about the table tennis is really funny though. should have used the forbidden technique on him(scrotum tski). Sounds like a TKD mcdojo practitioner. I always get a good laugh when they show up...
But back on topic what i really want to do is take aikido and just flip him into a wall... Oh well maybe in a year or two...
but his main complaint is that Aikido is too soft on the opponent and the locks it employs aren't going to hurt the opponent or knock him out. But on the other hand i think boxing isn't a martial art. It has to have a spirit and honor otherwise it's just two animals beating each other bloody.

Last edited by pugtm : 05-03-2007 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 05-03-2007, 08:44 PM   #13
Aristeia
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

you're right and you're wrong.
He thinks the techniques are too soft? Assume that the technique works - what happens to a lock if you keep applying it? If you *really* want to knock someone out it's a trivial matter once both their arms are broken I would have thought.

Where you're wrong is in thinking that boxing isn't a martial art.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:09 PM   #14
maxwelljones
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

It's especially telling that such a comment comes from a practitioner of a related art such as hapkido. I'm not exactly sure what it tells me, but it has to be more than coincidence. Most of the people I hear making such remarks are supporters of a specific body art, and/or believe that MMA is the ultimate determination of who's a badass and who's a wuss who's wasting time with some art that's too pitiful to show its pimply face in the ring.

It's a childish remark that any special discipline is "for wusses." It's simply invective. It's meaningless, especially if you use the discipline, regardless of what it is, to achieve excellence within its own context. You can achieve excellence in everything from rapid-fire pistol to ikebana.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:34 PM   #15
pugtm
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

ha ikebana. my parents made fun of me when i told them that one day i hope to learn it. Of course there are a lot of Japanese things id like to learn. I just don't know if ill live long enough.
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Old 05-03-2007, 10:07 PM   #16
ramenboy
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Confused Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote: View Post
...He thinks the techniques are too soft? Assume that the technique works - what happens to a lock if you keep applying it? If you *really* want to knock someone out it's a trivial matter once both their arms are broken I would have thought...
yeah...this is a topic that really bugs me. it actually happened earlier this week at our iaido dojo. its a great dojo, we have great teachers, and the students are all serious about iai. its made up of a few of us who study aikido, someone from karate, a retired police officer, and the balance (the bulk of the group) are kendoists. so a pretty varied background. however, there's this one cat who's done kendo and (as he puts it) 'various martial arts for many years.' i was talking to sensei after class, and my girlfriend was talking to others on the other side of dojo. this guy here's her talking about how iai and aikido compliment each other, and he pipes up that he has 'an issue' with people who do aikido. he proceeded to say that he doesn't want to 'dance around with someone' and just lay down when the person wants him to. he said there's no finishing techniques. he boasted that 'if we get to this point (he puts his arm in a shihonage position) '...i'd break the elbow'. well, that's why we learn to take ukemi, so we don't get our elbows broken...

anyways, he'd never mention that to me, or the others who study aikido there. he jumped all over a girl and tried to turn into macho man. so my girfriend said, 'well that's cool. if you could break everyone's elbow that you practice with, how long will it take them to get better so you practice again?' that burned him up. (i'm so proud of her!)

some people don't get it.

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Old 05-03-2007, 11:04 PM   #17
Edward
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

I do agree that the way it is practiced at some dojos gives this kind of impression, especially the manierism which I dislike the most.
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Old 05-04-2007, 03:11 AM   #18
xuzen
 
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

Of course Aikido are for wusses... we even have a highlight video with EM1N3M's Uber cool track to groove with it...

Ask him whether HapkiDon't has any of this?

Enjoy

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:38 AM   #19
crbateman
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

Aikido is for everybody... even wusses...
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:47 AM   #20
Dewey
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

Jerks are jerks, and that will never change. As they say: "you can't fix stupid." The problem with "tough guys" is that the only language they understand is physical force. The other problem is that they never really ever grew up. Just like the bullies we remember as children, they're compensating for their personal insecurities & inadequacies. Just keep that in mind whenever a "tough guy" venomously attacks Aikido, or any other martial art for that matter, that doesn't fit their criteria. Learning how to fight is not the same thing as learning self-defense skills.

All that matters is what you bring to Aikido. As has been also said, low-intensity training also contributes to this "wussie" reputation...a problem not unique to Aikido but exists in all martial arts. However, if you bring the intensity to practice (not machismo), it's not uncommon for it to become "infectious" amongst your fellow students...at least I have experienced this in my own dojo. It's not the Sensei's responsibility to "pump up" his students...they should bring their own initiative & desire to train.

The frustrating beauty & genius of Aikido that I have discovered for myself is that it is both a "hard" and "soft" martial art simultaneously. That is, there is a continuum of force in existence within Aikido and its techniques. As such, they can range anywhere from a well-choreographed dance to brutal bone-crushing jujutsu...with an infinite spectrum in between. Aikido is most certainly not for "wussies!"
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Old 05-04-2007, 08:05 AM   #21
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

What's a wuss?
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Old 05-04-2007, 08:27 AM   #22
Ecosamurai
 
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

Quote:
Brian Dewey wrote: View Post
Jerks are jerks, and that will never change. As they say: "you can't fix stupid." The problem with "tough guys" is that the only language they understand is physical force. The other problem is that they never really ever grew up. Just like the bullies we remember as children, they're compensating for their personal insecurities & inadequacies. Just keep that in mind whenever a "tough guy" venomously attacks Aikido, or any other martial art for that matter, that doesn't fit their criteria.
Made me think of something even funnier than the table tennis guy actually. Last year at the freshers recruitment fair at the uni club here in Aberdeen, a guy came to the aikido stand and started chatting to me and said that his friend who'd done karate had told him that aikido was rubbish and 'didn't work'. I said that I could understand why a karate student might say that but that his friend was mistaken and that a common view of aikido by someone who does karate is that it doesn't work because you just can't grab a punch and apply a writstlock as it's too fast. I then described to him how you would apply a wristlock from a quick jab (kotegaeshi in this case) he offered his arm and as soon as I touched it I knew he was going to be a real pain about it all (he was obviously quite physically strong and wanted to prove aikido 'didn't work'), I knew I'd be able to put the kote gaeshi on him and I also knew it would be messy and risked injuring him not to mention that we weren't in any sort of a place where I'd be willing to do that to someone. So I just let him walk away thinking he was right and aikido was crap and ineffective, suited me and I certainly wasn't bothered.

A few months later he showed up at kendo and took part in a lesson. While we were waiting for our turn in a line to perform some exercise I looked over and saw that while he was waiting he had decided to punch the wall repeatedly. Presumably because he felt unhappy about the room having walls and they had clearly offended him by their grisly determination to keep the ceiling up above us.

Regards

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
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Old 05-04-2007, 08:37 AM   #23
Paul Sanderson-Cimino
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

Is typical aikido wussy? Maybe. Is typical hapkido less so? I can think of no clear evidence to support that assertion. Having meaner-looking joint locks has little to do with effectiveness or intensity of training.

All that said, yeah, I could see the logic of the fellow's argument. It's just that I don't think it's particularly cogent logic.
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Old 05-04-2007, 08:42 AM   #24
Paul Sanderson-Cimino
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
I knew I'd be able to put the kote gaeshi on him and I also knew it would be messy and risked injuring him not to mention that we weren't in any sort of a place where I'd be willing to do that to someone. So I just let him walk away thinking he was right and aikido was crap and ineffective, suited me and I certainly wasn't bothered.
I hate doing this because it might appear rude, but my honest/scientific side compels me: evidence of (your personal) kotegaeshi being an effective and reliable counter to a jab, please. If you think you can provide that evidence yourself, maybe go to a Bullshido.com throwdown in your area sometime, participate in some friendly sparring, and get it on video. (I don't think you're lying, but I've picked up the habit of "video or it didn't happen". It's not a bad ethic for handling forum claims.)

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
A few months later he showed up at kendo and took part in a lesson. While we were waiting for our turn in a line to perform some exercise I looked over and saw that while he was waiting he had decided to punch the wall repeatedly. Presumably because he felt unhappy about the room having walls and they had clearly offended him by their grisly determination to keep the ceiling up above us.
Ha! Priceless.

Last edited by Paul Sanderson-Cimino : 05-04-2007 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 05-04-2007, 08:49 AM   #25
pugtm
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Re: "Aikido is for wusses": a response?

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
A few months later he showed up at kendo and took part in a lesson. While we were waiting for our turn in a line to perform some exercise I looked over and saw that while he was waiting he had decided to punch the wall repeatedly. Presumably because he felt unhappy about the room having walls and they had clearly offended him by their grisly determination to keep the ceiling up above us.
Mike
with his kote on? HAHAHAHAHAHAH priceless
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