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Old 09-08-2006, 08:55 AM   #26
Mike Sigman
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Re: iwama note, censored?

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
In my opinion, the thinking behind the law is a relic of the ryouseiba rule in the Tokugawa period and the responsibility for the breaking of WA is a major factor. I have been involved in two major accidents (i.e., accidents involving substantial injuries to the other party and substantial damage to my vehicle) and the police have invariably asked, 'How could the conflict (the accident) have been avoided?' Certain answers are not acceptable (e.g., 'I should have stayed at home').

Now, it is my belief (and I have done no research about this, so that my belief is simply a belief) that this model of joint responsibility for the breaking of the WA, the harmony, extends beyond concrete, 'in-your-face' cases like road accidents to other cases like the Iwama problem, about which, because it is also an 'international' problem, it is possible to have various reactions and considered opinions.

I have always been struck by the fact that the Aikikai NEVER publicly discusses such issues. There has been the conflict with Tohei Sensei and now the conflict in Iwama discussed by Homma Sensei. You will find no contribution on the Internet about these issues from the Aikikai. This might be an 'ostrich' reaction, as 'westerners' might see it, or it might be a reaction fully in tune with the accepted cultural norms.
I tend to agree with George's recommendation, which addresses the reality and gets away from the "let's pretend we're Japanese... what would our pretend-personas do in this role play" scenario.

I've met Homma Sensei a few times, so I have an "intuition" about him which in turn affects my view of his "intuitions" in his article. It's one of those sticky problems that arises occasionally and there is no clearcut answer, but I would opine that George's instincts are probably the most productive. Many, many times I've had Asians tell me that "such and such is the traditional way, but it is tiresome and I wish we could do it the way Culture-X does it... it would be much better". In other words, "Wa" aside, polite common-sense will almost always be respected from foreigners.... more so respected if it becomes customary. And many Japanese will quietly be very happy to see it, I think.

FWIW

Mike
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Old 09-08-2006, 10:24 AM   #27
ChrisMoses
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Re: iwama note, censored?

I don't really think this is anything new. Imagine being from the Ki no Kenyukai and showing up in Iwama in 1975, how do you think that would have gone down? Ever read some of Yamada's published comments on the ASU split? I've only really trained in independant dojos (excepting a six month stint at an Aikikai school) and while I've been to Japan several times, I've never even considered going to Hombu dojo, I know the kind of welcome I would get.

WRT this specific case, if Homma Sensei knew he was planning to visit the shrine with Ali Sensei (I really doubt it just sort of happened) why didn't he take the time to contact Isoyama Sensei or one of his associates to make arrangements ahead of time. I'm not Japanese, but I do know that the actions you take before a meeting/event often can hold more weight than the actions you take during the event. Just showing up isn't really doing it right, particularly when you must suspect that you may not be welcomed with open arms.

I'd also like to comment on George's statement that this is a feudal hold-over. I'm no historian, but I think that this is more a result of the WWI-WWII period that served as the historical backdrop for Aikido's conception. The feudal model for martial arts was much more like a family structure than the military rank and file that became ubiquitous during the expansionist period leading up to WWII. The strict and rigid idea of feudal Japan that became common in this period is just as inaccurate as texts like "Bushido" and "Hagakure" that helped define that movement.

I think that one of the reasons that this just seems to be the way that this sort of thing is dealt with in Aikido (aside from the Japanese cultural context) is that the structure of the aikikai is such that legitimacy and authority is based almost solely on where one fits into the hierarchy as opposed to any kind of merit based system. Not that this is unique to Aikido, but I think the lack of any kind of randori/shiai exacerbates this need for a position within the structure. When Kano Sensei bested his teacher, their roles reversed and Kano became the teacher. There is no way for this to happen within the strucutured environment of Aikido. While one may reach a level of comfort with ones teacher that allows frank commentary, there is no mechanism for the lower rungs to overrule the higher rungs. At some point the only resolution to a difference of opinion is to leave, and once you move outside of that structure of authority it can be very hard (if not impossible) to continue much of a relationship. I have trained at and left three Aikido schools. I have nothing to do with the first two whatsoever; I was even threatened with a lawsuit when leaving the first. I consider myself blessed that I'm able to have a friendly relationship with my last aikido dojo, though my relationship with some of the students there has certainly changed.

As for the West being able to change this sort of thing, I just don't see it. There are just as many people here who cling to their place in the pecking order as there are in Japan. The breif time I trained at an Aikikai dojo convinced me of that. Anyone who doesn't fit into the structure is quite simply a threat. Like George mentioned, at Expo there were squads of students following their teacher from room to room, and then on the other end you had people like Ikeda Sensei lining up with everyone else for another teacher's class (proving again that he's a rare gem in US Aikido).

I guess what I'm saying is that events like this help to remind us that this is the way things *are*. Personally I would like to see the Iwama Shrine depoliticized as it has historical signifigance to all students of Ueshiba's legacy, but it is owned by the Aikikai and they have a *legitimate* right to choose who has access to those facilities.

Finally, while I'm sure it sounds like I'm being really down on the Aikikai, I should mention that I've been genuinely impressed with the current Doshu's honest and earnest efforts to bring so many groups and organizations back under the Aikikai umbrella. I have a great deal of respect for him because of those actions, and think things are better now (with that regard) than they have been since the Tohei split.
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Old 09-08-2006, 11:23 AM   #28
Don_Modesto
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Re: iwama note, censored?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
The students, especially the seniors, of one of the oldest and largest Aikido organizations in the United States are not allowed to train with people from outside their limited set of organizational affiliations....This is all complete crap as far as I am concerned. You have American Aikido practitioners of 6th dan and 7th dan who feel they have to restrict their training because some Japanese Shihan gets paranoid....For this type of thing to continue you have to have people who perpetuate it. Just stop. Just say no. Take your lumps from that Shihan who tells you not to train with so and so. The only ability these guys have to control things come from the fact that they can withdraw their support from individuals who cross them. If people collectively just said they didn't want to play any more, what do you think would happen?
Prisoners Dilemma.

I completely agree with you, George, but for one senior student to talk back, he'd have to be sure of all the others. I see it everyday in work--people accomodate rather than put up a fight. And there's a lot to be lost for some aikido teachers. I know one who is famous throughout S. America, the Caribbean, and Europe for the patronage of his SHIHAN. I don't see him talking back and jeopardizing the income which puts his kids in college.

Maybe aikido could reach an agreement with the AFL-CIO, huh?

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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Old 09-08-2006, 12:17 PM   #29
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: iwama note, censored?

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
Since George raised the issue as something that he and other like-minded aikidouka would not tolerate, I suggest that a serious conversation takes place with Yamada Yoshimitsu, Saotome Mitsugi and Chiba Kazuo Shihans about the Iwama issue. For my part, I will raise the question at the IAF Directing Committee Meeting, to be held in Paris in March 2007.
I will say that Saotome Sensei is quite publicly on the record on this. While it is definitely true that he has a range of personal relationships with the other Japanese Shihan which are outside of the subject of this discussion, his personal feelings about one teacher or another do not carry over into his running of the ASU in that any student from any organization is welcome at any event we hold. I believe that he also would maintain that any student or teacher from any organzation would be welcome at any member dojo.

I have trained since 1976 and not once in that time have I EVER had the least inference from Sensei that I should not train with anyone. This applied to ALL Aikido teachers, regardless of his personal relationship with them and it applied to teachers of the various other martial arts I studied. Sensei is so serious about this that I actually headed a dojo that was affiliated through Chiba Sensei and the Western region of the USAF for a couple years
and I actually have a Shidoin certificate signed by Yamada Sensei. To his credit, Chiba Sensei treated me with great respect and was quite supportive.

I think there is a certain sensitivity to the issue of lots of folks from outside the organization teaching seminars at the dojos in the organzation but it's not from any resistance to outside influences or a desire to be insular but rather from the feeling that since we are trying to develop a generation of top level teachers, one of the functions of the organzation is to support the development of its own instructors. But even here, I have no knowledge of Sensei ever telling anyone from within the ASU not to host any teacher, as long as they didn't have some serious character flaw.

The other Rokudan instructors I know within the ASU have virtually all hosted seminars at their dojos in which teachers from outside organzations and unaffiliated teachers have taught and most have also held seminars featuring instruction in other martial arts which the instructor felt would be helpful to his students. So it is not just that the lower level folks within our organzation who more less escape notice can do as they please. These are the students whom Sensei has trained directly for over thirty years.

I have to say that I have never been more proud to be associated with the people I am that at the Expos when I saw Ikeda Sensei and our Rokudans out there taking everyone's classes and being willing to look like beginner's in Kuroda and Ushiro Sensei's classes, striping off their hakamas to do the Systema classes, etc. Many of the relationships formed during those events have continued between the Aikido teachers of different affilations and between our folks and some of the teachers of non-Aikido arts.

The fact is that more exchange makes better Aikido. It is our responsibility to get as good as we possibly can in the limited time we have in this life. Letting political idiocy stand in the way of the constant striving to be better is stupid, aside from the fact that it runs entirely counter to the publicly stated goals of Aikido as an art that brings people together. Aikido is the art which is supposed to unite the world. That cannot happen when petty minds decide who is included and who is not.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 09-08-2006, 01:44 PM   #30
Erick Mead
 
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Re: iwama note, censored?

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
On rereading your reply, I think you might have missed my point about the road accident.
Perhaps I did. My first observation was more directed to the "intractable" social problems, which the typical fender-bender or even more serious accident is not.
Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
... as I explained in a blog for Aikido Journal last year, the driver of the larger vehicle is immediately judged largely to blame, to varying degrees.
The inverse law of gross tonnage ... Or is it a hitherto unknown form of Mahayana doctrine If that held true it would seem to bode well for the partisans of the Saito-zoku (clan) -- but I perceive that the same law does not hold for larger social mass...

While I have the academic background for some of this, that is not the same as being there. In my admittedly brief personal experience in Japan (all around Tokyo/Kamakura), some six visits over the course of two years, I too was struck by the same stage-quality to conflict situations you note -- the "Noh drama" approach (or is that "no-drama") All cultures have their own unique blends of artifice and sincerity in service of larger social ends. I was raised very traditionally in the South, a region similarly (blessed/cursed) by Heinlein's Law of Polite Culture, but seemingly far less repressed by it.
Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
... The law governing road accidents has recently been made more severe and if you as a foreigner don't know this, you can end up in a detention house and subsequently in prison, for being in more severe accidents ...
Lesson being -- drive a scooter? Skateboard, maybe ?
Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
I have always been struck by the fact that the Aikikai NEVER publicly discusses such issues. There has been the conflict with Tohei Sensei and now the conflict in Iwama discussed by Homma Sensei. You will find no contribution on the Internet about these issues from the Aikikai. This might be an 'ostrich' reaction, as 'westerners' might see it, or it might be a reaction fully in tune with the accepted cultural norms.
My comment on anger (particularly on the long-running Tohei issue) was mainly addressed to the present situation you were analogizing, and the fact that despite all appearances, conflicts in Japanese culture do not typically abate, but merely become subtextual -- awaiting a moment of chaos or permitted disinhibition to surface, especially on a convenient whipping boy. Ask the eta or the Zainichi Koreans. (What? Who? Nope. No Koreans 'round here, Nossirree!).

It seems clear that the contending (but unequal) feudal primogenitures, along the koryu model, of Ueshiba-zoku and Saito-zoku (or of perceived loyalty thereto, respectively) over Iwama following the exercise of Hombu's supervening authority are the source of the immediate chaos.

Aikido in the West seems to me to be following a more Buddhist dharma lineage model, and not the koryu clan model that seems to be rearing its head in Japan. Lineage and affiliation matters over here in terms of presumptive authority, or pattern of teaching, but not usually in any possessory or territorial sense. And there is a similar emphasis on going beyond received wisdom as being somehow complete in itself. My sense, from what I can glean from Saotome's direct students that I have read, known, or met is that Saotome implicitly followed that model from a sense of direction or mission from O-Sensei in coming here to teach (causing uproar as well, so I'm told) I gather that Tohei did something similar, earlier as well.

I had two reactions to the article.

1) Aikikai has practiced the same "What, me worry?" tradition of non-conflict non-resolution model, as is traditional for intractable problems in Japan, and this is an effort at expression of loyalty-by-exclusion by a subset of the Aikikai-zoku.

2) Homma Sensei has been in the West long enough to transcend the "wa" model of conflicts, and has started asking 'impertinent' questions in the open about it. (That is the Western insouciance -- we just keep asking these pestering questions, even of our betters.)

3) Homma Sensei is reacting so strongly because of the departure from his native assumptions in the very non-wa (how's that for mixed usage) situation in Iwama, which is plainly not following the non-conflict, non-resolution model.

4) Maybe it is simply Hitohiro Saito Sensei's turn in the bucket -- since it never seems to get emptied.

As for the numbering, I'm a lawyer -- not an accountant. What do I know?

As for the rest, I'll leave it to my betters. All I get to do is ask these incessant questions ...

Last edited by Erick Mead : 09-08-2006 at 01:53 PM.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 09-08-2006, 03:07 PM   #31
crbateman
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Re: iwama note, censored?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
I have to say that I have never been more proud to be associated with the people I am that at the Expos when I saw Ikeda Sensei and our Rokudans out there taking everyone's classes and being willing to look like beginner's in Kuroda and Ushiro Sensei's classes, striping off their hakamas to do the Systema classes, etc. Many of the relationships formed during those events have continued between the Aikido teachers of different affilations and between our folks and some of the teachers of non-Aikido arts.
I very much agree with your observations here, George. I saw similar open-mindness at the Expos from leaders and followers of several organizations. Although not totally immune to inter-divisional tensions or to potentially polarizing elements (as one would have to expect, given the diversity and sheer number of participants), it could definitely be said that most issues were approached from the standpoint of the overall benefit to EVERYBODY'S Aikido, and that mutual respect and tolerance were the rule, rather than the exception.

Much of this is due to the most deserved esteem for Stan Pranin, and his fair approach to all corners of Aikido, and much additional credit goes to the participants, most of which led by example in putting aside their individual politics for the duration of the event. Aikido needs more bridge-building events of this nature, not just because of the opportunity to observe and train with so many excellent technicians and luminaries of the aiki arts, but because mutual dialog and participation can do much to close the gaps that have left so many on one side of an issue or another. Aikido needs to be bigger than all the politics. The opportunity is there to demonstrate what people of good character and conscience can accomplish when working together.

Sadly, there aren't many Stan Pranins out there. Not many who could put events like the Expos together. The logistics and work involved are overwhelming, and the financial risk is huge. If only this were not the case, then perhaps those of us who love ALL of Aikido could see great things happen in our lifetimes, instead of standing on our own little icebergs, watching as we and others float away from each other.
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Old 09-08-2006, 07:43 PM   #32
Kevin Wilbanks
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Re: iwama note, censored?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
....The fact is that more exchange makes better Aikido. It is our responsibility to get as good as we possibly can in the limited time we have in this life. Letting political idiocy stand in the way of the constant striving to be better is stupid, aside from the fact that it runs entirely counter to the publicly stated goals of Aikido as an art that brings people together. Aikido is the art which is supposed to unite the world. That cannot happen when petty minds decide who is included and who is not.
This entire post was very well said, though it seems a little crazy to me that it isn't so obvious that saying it should be unnecessary. My thought is that this kind of behavior is actually worse than just mere idiocy or pettiness, it is actually an expression of a lack of faith... of fear. If a teacher has faith in his art, why would he feel it needs to be protected from outsiders or outside influences? If the teacher has faith in his students, why would he try to micromanage their behavior and control who they interact with and how? Even if the stated goal of Aikido wasn't so altruistic, I don't see how behavior that is so obviously motivated by fear has any place at the top level of a martial art.
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Old 09-09-2006, 07:42 AM   #33
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Re: iwama note, censored?

Quote:
Fred Little wrote:
In principle, I concur with your judgement, but as a matter of simple observation, I must ask why we should expect that aikido politics and the personality structures of aikido leaders would be any less driven by fear than actual politics and the personality structures of actual leaders with genuine authority to exert martial force?

Fred Little
I've heard that martial artist's are a stubborn bunch.
Fred makes a good point. Just because we have adopted a martial art that has nice ideals - it doesn't make us any less susceptible to the weaknesses of being human beings. It is always easy to point the finger and say, "oh! How terrible for this to happen!" Yet I'm sure most of us have displayed streaks of subborness in our lives that weren't in line with the lofty ideals of aikido. I do hope things get worked out though.

So far, I have only heard Homma Sensei's version of the situation. I would be interested to hear from someone else who was there at the time.
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Old 09-09-2006, 01:40 PM   #34
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Re: iwama note, censored?

The posts in this thread regarding "fear in aikido" have been split and moved to this thread:

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10934

-- Jun

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Old 09-09-2006, 03:56 PM   #35
grondahl
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Re: iwama note, censored?

The experience that mr Homma recollects in his article is very similiar to what a friend of mine experienced during a short visit to Iwama. Very different atmospere on different sides of that brickwall...
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Old 09-09-2006, 11:55 PM   #36
Mike Bissonette
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Re: iwama note, censored?

I visited the Ibaraki Branch Dojo in July 2004 and 2005. I spent time each day working on the grounds of the Dojo and the Aiki Shrine. I worked with other visiting Aikidoka and Uchi-deshi staying at the Dojo and Uchi-deshi of Nemoto Sensei who stayed at Aiki House. At no time did anyone direct us not to talk to anyone else. The directions from Isoyama Shihan and Nemoto Sensei were only concerned with the tasks assigned to us.
I do not believe Isoyama Shihan or Nemoto Sensei would tolerate the behavior described.

Michael Bissonette
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Old 09-10-2006, 04:11 AM   #37
Jory Boling
 
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Re: iwama note, censored?

is being an uchideshi there a cloistered life or along ascetic lines? are working uchideshi supposed to be focused on their tasks and not chitchatting with tourists? uchideshi are kind of like aiki-monks.
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Old 09-10-2006, 01:39 PM   #38
Mike Grant
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Re: iwama note, censored?

I was in Iwama in 2003 at the time of the handover and I'd just like to say that I didn't pick up anything other than respect for the new occupiers of the shuren dojo. We spent quite a few days doing odd jobs and making sure that site was suitable for handover and that was it. Once this happened, we just stayed away out of respect for the new management. I'd also like to add that the jinja was left alone for about a week after the transfer with the leaves piling up and at the end of that period Isoyama sensei turned up and swept them up himself every morning and he was perfectly polite and always took time to say hello to the tanrenkan uchi deshi. Not bad for somebody of his seniority.

So what's going on? Things did get a little out of hand in early 2004 with the public announcements by several high ranking European instructors that they 'didn't understand' Hitohiro sensei's decision to form his own organisation, so maybe the whole thing is being wound by up them. That would certainly be in line with some of their previous behaviour. Who knows, who cares? Let's just get on with our practice. There really isn't that much to see at the old dojo anyway.
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Old 09-16-2006, 08:01 PM   #39
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Silver Lining???

Okay, I gotta say this.

As sad a commentary on the state of the Aikido community, when reading this article my first thought was, "Oh dear Lord, they turned Homma-sensei and Ali-sensei away because Ali-sensei is middle-eastern???"

THANK GOD, that wasn't the case!!!

So, as bad as this political infighting may be, it could always be worse!
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Old 10-06-2006, 12:36 AM   #40
Ibaraki Bryan
 
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Thumbs down Re: iwama note, censored?

Quote:
Michael Bissonette wrote:
I do not believe Isoyama Shihan or Nemoto Sensei would tolerate the behavior described.
I agree.

Quote:
Jun wrote:
No, I can't say I've deleted any of your messages.
Sorry for any misunderstanding. For some reason, my earlier post is not listed here and must not have been processed by the server... again, my apologies!

Thanks to everyone for your input. I wish I'd been able to save a copy of my note -- I was sure to express my opinion that Homma Sensei's observations are limited to a very short span of time. I know that when he visited for the last couple Taisai festivals, he stayed just one night before heading out to visit his family up north. Visiting Iwama during Taisai is always a bit weird with so many outsiders in town (outsiders includes Tokyo people -- anyone who isn't living in our around Iwama). For the most part, locals are great.

When I lived in Iwama (April 2004-Jan 2006), I lived next door to Nemoto Sensei's aiki house, and had many nice visits with students there. They'd come over to my place for tea or to use the internet and were always very cordial. I never felt any negativity from them. Nemoto was a great neighbor (his brother too), and Isoyama and I always smiled and waved as we passed each other (me on my bike, he in his car).

On a side note, I'm heading back to Iwama next week for a two week stay. I'll be training at Hitohiro's, but not sure yet if I'll be uchideshi or not. I have some business to attend to in Mito, but I might be able to get everything sorted out right away so I can then concentrate more on training.

I'll try to post pictures and such at my blog during or after the trip:
http://ibaraki-bryan.blogspot.com/

Heading out Wednesday the 11th.

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Old 10-06-2006, 06:28 AM   #41
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: iwama note, censored?

Mr Sardoch,

I think you should tell us what you actually think of Mr Homma's article.

You started this thread by asking if your original post about the article had been censored: it hadn't. My first post (#4) requested you to re-post the article and yet you have been silent throughout the very interesting discussion that ensued--until now, and you still cannot remember your original post.

Well, as you stated, your original post was about Mr Homma's article. So why don't you read the article again and give your opinions.

Best wishes,

P A Goldsbury
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Old 10-06-2006, 09:30 AM   #42
Ibaraki Bryan
 
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Re: iwama note, censored?

Hi Peter --

I often read Homma Sensei's articles about Iwama. He has some very strong personal opinions about the way the split has been handled. Interesting, he's never seemed to caught up in why the split occured as much as what he perceives as the infantile reactions of parties on each side.

I think part of the bias Homma Sensei expresses comes from his feeling that there should be a single "leader" in Iwama, as there was with Morihiro Shihan (see his article "A New Leader in Iwama"). People who regularly visited Iwama during Morihiro's time would go back there, knowing that they'd be receiving a particular kind of training (what some call Iwama style, or "traditional" aikido).

With the Ibaraki branch dojo there's no clear leadership. Isoyama Sensei has kindly assumed the duties of caring for the shrine and dojo grounds, but often lacks the manpower. He doesn't teach every class, and there is noone who really brings the dojo together. If you go as uchideshi with Nemoto Sensei, you might perceive Nemoto as the leader -- if you go as uchideshi at the old dojo (the program runs intermittently), you might feel that Isoyama is the "leader" because he is present more often than other teachers. With classes from different teachers every night (if the teachers come to class) and even some commuter nights where students are picked up and driven to different dojos in the nearby towns of Ishioka, Tomobe, Kasama and even Tsuchiura, it's very difficult to visit for a week or two or even a couple months, and come out with a clear picture of something to strive for.

Homma Sensei seems to feel that Hitohiro is earnestly working to carry on the legacy of his father, teaching a strong set of basic skills that anyone who visits can perceive and train to develop.

Now, Homma Sensei's bias explained (or at least the way I see his bias), I don't necessarily agree with the message he's trying to portray in the original article. I'm sickened by it, but I think there's less substance to the incident than Homma Sensei sees. I don't think students were explicitly told not to converse with students from "the other side." I think it's more of a cultural misunderstanding. Foreigners training in Japan -- especially for a short time -- can spend way too much time reading into the motives of their teacher. I know, I did it too as a first time uchideshi. You watch your teacher for any slight indication of any kind of emotion and try to understand how your actions can show that you are a loyal and motivated deshi. I can see how, during Taisai, students from Tokyo might come into Iwama and act in a strange way. Their teachers' (back home or just in Tokyo) might, upon entering Iwama, be acting uncomfortably due to their feelings about the split or some other personal concern. I've heard some Hombu students waiting for the train after Taisai discussing how relieved they felt to be leaving town -- they're so stressed out! I think some people come to Iwama expecting conflict, and so they subconciously build the conflict up. So, in my opinion, the students Homma Sensei talks about, the ones who basically shunned him and his friends, were probably not told to act a certain way, but acted a certain way out of ignorance.

Seems like a wrote a lot without really saying very much. In total, I guess I just feel that Homma Sensei's concerns are quite valid on the worldwide aikido scene, but that they apply in Iwama only (or at least mostly) on the most stressful, aiki-tourist packed day of the year.

Hope that made sense.

Also, sorry for not responding during the entire conversation -- I'm unable to spend much time on the forums!

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Old 04-25-2007, 03:58 AM   #43
joey davis
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Iwama Tai Sai 1 year on from Gaku Homma's article "A Dangerous Message"

Recently Aiki Journal featured Gaku Homma's article "A Dangerous Message" for the first time on it's home page. The article highlighted certain unacceptable behavior from the Aikikai Ibaraki dojo. Only 3 responses there so far. There has been no response on this site except to say that the subject has already been discussed here last year.

A year on and no one else is upset by this behavior. Is there anything new to be said on the matter?
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Old 04-25-2007, 04:09 AM   #44
roman naly
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Re: Iwama Tai Sai 1 year on from Gaku Homma's article "A Dangerous Message"

Have you got a link to it.

cheers roman
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Old 04-25-2007, 04:11 AM   #45
joey davis
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Re: Iwama Tai Sai 1 year on from Gaku Homma's article "A Dangerous Message"

http://www.nippon-kan.org/senseis_ar...s_message.html
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Old 04-25-2007, 05:52 AM   #46
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Iwama Tai Sai 1 year on from Gaku Homma's article "A Dangerous Message"

Quote:
joey davis wrote:
Is there anything new to be said on the matter?
Maybe Mr. Goldsbury can give more info about this subject.
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=24

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Old 04-25-2007, 06:00 AM   #47
joey davis
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Re: Iwama Tai Sai 1 year on from Gaku Homma's article "A Dangerous Message"

[quote=Demetrio Cereijo;176524]Maybe Mr. Goldsbury can give more info about this subject.

old news, as mentioned, that does not get to the heart of the matter.

what is your opinion Demetrio?
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Old 04-25-2007, 06:55 AM   #48
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Iwama Tai Sai 1 year on from Gaku Homma's article "A Dangerous Message"

[quote=Joey Davis;176525]
Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Maybe Mr. Goldsbury can give more info about this subject.

old news, as mentioned, that does not get to the heart of the matter.

what is your opinion Demetrio?
I am not Demetrio, but I will give my opinion. I really have no desire to be involved with this sort of 'aikido politics'. Mr Homma wrote an article and gave his opinion from his viewpoint, neither of which are shared by others in Iwama.

The IAF held a meeting in Paris last month and Hiroshi Isoyama Shihan took part. The meeting lasted for a week and I had many occasions to talk to Isoyama Shihan. Of course we discussed training in Iwama, both when Saito Morihiro Shihan was alive and now.

However, since the discussion last year apparently did not "get to the heart of the matter", I leave that to others who are closer to the heart of the matter than I am. If you look at the English version of the Aikikai Hombu website, you can see information about the Ibaragi Shibu Dojo and can access the Dojo's website, in English and Japanese. Both versions have an e-mail address for Shigemi Inagaki.

So I suggest that you guys put your money where your mouths are and contact the Ibaragi Dojo directly. Tell him about the Homma article and ask him for his opinion.

P A Goldsbury
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Old 04-25-2007, 06:58 AM   #49
batemanb
 
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Re: Iwama Tai Sai 1 year on from Gaku Homma's article "A Dangerous Message"

Peter posted as I was writing, deleted post

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 04-25-2007, 07:29 AM   #50
joey davis
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Re: Iwama Tai Sai 1 year on from Gaku Homma's article "A Dangerous Message"

[quote=Peter A Goldsbury;176526]
Quote:
Joey Davis wrote: View Post

I am not Demetrio, but I will give my opinion. I really have no desire to be involved with this sort of 'aikido politics'.
who is mentioning "politics?" the point, which is being overlooked, is that if people doing aikido cannot be friendly to one another, even in the midst of differences of opinion, it is a disgrace and discredits many of the fundamentals regarding the promotion of peaceful interaction between people.

a previous post of yours mentions "I will raise the question at the IAF Directing Committee Meeting, to be held in Paris in March 2007."

until now I have not seen any postings regarding this meeting and the situation in point. if they have appeared elsewhere could you please point me to them.

having given your opinion extensively in the past, could you shed some light on your above meeting in regards to these incidents?

thankyou
J.D.
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