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Old 03-29-2007, 09:32 PM   #1
aikishrine
Dojo: aikido of central new york
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is it at all possible?

hi my name is Brian and i have left a couple of threads before, on Aikido and kali. this is going to be a different subject;

as i have mentioned before, i love Aikido and all of its spiritual and philosophical ideals.
i strongly hope and pray for world peace, and being able to reconcile with our misguided attckers. but my problem is this;

how does one reconcile with "evil forces" that have no regards for thier own lives, let alone other innocent beings. i know that one persons wrongs are another persons right, but we all know that some people are very confused, and extremely misguided, so how do we as Aikido practisioners reach these people, and reconcile with them to try to create a world in which O'SENSEI dreamed of.
and all of us preay and hope for?
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Old 03-29-2007, 09:58 PM   #2
Roman Kremianski
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Re: is it at all possible?

Yonkyo.

But seriously...I don't know. Can you give an example of a person you would hope to "reach"?
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:35 PM   #3
Aikibu
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Re: is it at all possible?

Quote:
Brian Northrup wrote: View Post
hi my name is Brian and i have left a couple of threads before, on Aikido and kali. this is going to be a different subject;

as i have mentioned before, i love Aikido and all of its spiritual and philosophical ideals.
i strongly hope and pray for world peace, and being able to reconcile with our misguided attckers. but my problem is this;

how does one reconcile with "evil forces" that have no regards for thier own lives, let alone other innocent beings. i know that one persons wrongs are another persons right, but we all know that some people are very confused, and extremely misguided, so how do we as Aikido practisioners reach these people, and reconcile with them to try to create a world in which O'SENSEI dreamed of.
and all of us preay and hope for?
Start with yourself...and when blessed with the opportunity to reconcile an evil and bring harmony and balance to the universe

Do so...

in other words to talk the talk... make sure you walk the walk when fate crosses your path.

William Hazen
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Old 03-30-2007, 08:00 AM   #4
Cyrijl
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Re: is it at all possible?

What makes you think you or any other aikidoka have the right to tell people how to live. That would be my question.

It seems you have no idea what you are talking about, but it sounds alot like the dictators and tyrants I have read about. I agree with william. Fix whatever is wrong with you first. By being a good person youself and treating others around you with respect and concern, then you can slowly inspire others. All these things which you are externalizing should be internalized.

I think this is a rather polite post considering your tone.

melior est canis vivus leone mortuo
Bog svsami!!!
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Old 03-30-2007, 08:50 AM   #5
SeiserL
 
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Re: is it at all possible?

Quote:
Brian Northrup wrote: View Post
how do we as Aikido practisioners reach these people, and reconcile with them to try to create a world in which O'SENSEI dreamed of. and all of us preay and hope for?
Is it possible? I don't really know, but there is only one way to find out.

How? First we do it internally in our own lives. Then we expand out to our family and community, the people we can touch, now. Modeling and leading from the front and by example. Finally, we keep extending our compassion.

If you look at the big picture, evolution over time, we actually are making progress. don't expect immediate results. The best things take time, patience, and practice.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 03-30-2007, 10:43 AM   #6
ChrisHein
 
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Re: is it at all possible?

Some good advice so far.

I would say let go of the idea of "evil people".

Evil people don't exist. Only people. People with different ideas then yours. Ideas that might lead you to do the same things in their position.

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Old 03-30-2007, 12:40 PM   #7
Largo
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Re: is it at all possible?

As for reaching those people, it's easy. Just make sure they are in striking range
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:51 PM   #8
aikishrine
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Re: is it at all possible?

My intent was not to be a prophet and change the world, my tone was in no way harsh, or meant to be at all negative
if this was the way, which it seems for a couple of people it was, taken in such a manner, i do apologize, but i can assure you that my thoughts are entirely peaceful and harmonious.

but in reply to a post i give you this
it must be hard to practice Aikido and read about O'Sensei, when in fact he was trying to change peoples perceptions about how they live and act and treat others, i am not trying to do this i just asked a question, so i will ask again in another, hopefully less painful a way.

i asked how it is possible to reconcile and harmonize with people who have no regard for thier own lives let alone the lives of the rest of humanity, when we in the so called civilized frame of mind dont agree with these people, and in fact they dont agree with us so they are right and wrong and we are right and wrong, its all on which side you fall, again all i ask is how try to blend with thier way of understanding in a way to keep the peace without destroying them or ourselves.

and in reply to those who suggest internalizing my thoughts and dealing with and defeating my own inner demons, which thier are many i work on this everyday all day my two favorite books which i keep within arms length at all times are "The Art of Peace" and "Bushido"

Last edited by aikishrine : 03-30-2007 at 12:55 PM. Reason: i left out a word, and mispelled one, or many
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Old 03-30-2007, 01:16 PM   #9
Largo
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Re: is it at all possible?

I remember being told once that the only thing you can control in life is you. You can't control anyone else or anything else. If someone is truely on a self destructive path, harmonizing (or whatever) won't really do much. Personally, I just try to avoid that type.
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Old 03-30-2007, 03:16 PM   #10
SeiserL
 
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Re: is it at all possible?

I think the biggest task is making sure that you are not one of the evil people who others are trying to reach.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 03-30-2007, 05:00 PM   #11
tarik
 
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Re: is it at all possible?

I think a lot of people are equivocating and trying to avoid the bare fact that sometimes you have to stop people who are committing evil acts by stating that you should first work on yourself.

Yes, work on yourself. You'll find that most personal conflict arises because of your own behavior and your own actions and choices. I have seldom met someone who was in a bar fight who didn't want to be in one, including many bouncers (I've bounced and this was one place I never had to use physical skills). Yes, it happens, but it is far less frequent than the first case.

However, there are times when you have to step forward and stop people who are committing an act, that for want of a better term, is evil. Do it and do it with the intent to resolve the situation while causing the least harm to the most people. Reconciliation is only possible when the other person is ready to receive the opportunity and choose to take it. All you can do is give it to them when they allow it and do what is necessary.

In my mind, in the philosophical sense, aikido is more about doing the least harm necessary and being at peace with what is necessary.

Tell me, are you at peace with the plants and animals that you kill and consume to survive? I am.

Tarik Ghbeish
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Iwae Dojo

MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
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Old 03-30-2007, 06:31 PM   #12
Mark Uttech
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Re: is it at all possible?

Evil people do exist; the problem is that most are invisible until their evil deeds appear. I think when people begin daily practice, they get to a place where they do not worry or fear so much anymore. In the midst of their own transformation, they meet the evil within themselves. That is why aikido is Michi, A Way.

In gassho

Mark
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Old 04-01-2007, 05:04 PM   #13
msorses
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Re: is it at all possible?

I have read, digested and regurgetated your post, I understand totally what you are in about and I know exactly where you are coming from! I have spent all my life around the forces so I have had this sort of stuff in my face forever! When I was 6 I though it was fun to go out with my dad and check under his car fo what I called a semtex burger (a nice gift from the PIRA/IRA) but hey, I got on with it all! What I mean to add from that is that you can live alongside these 'evil' people (if they are evil at all - as questioned) and you can have a happy existance. the main problem is when you see such said evil mofo's in real and you have to step in to sort the problem out!

My main advice would be from a phrase that my school/Master advocated and in Japanese it goes like this 'Shika ta ga nai' - there are many meanings to it as I have found but it has a general trans;ation that basicallly kicks ass! I have had it as my phone's welcome message for 10 years now to remind me!

Chris
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Old 04-01-2007, 05:37 PM   #14
Roman Kremianski
Dojo: Toronto Aikikai
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Re: is it at all possible?

Quote:
I think the biggest task is making sure that you are not one of the evil people who others are trying to reach.
Haha.

Brian: I don't think you're supposed to change anyone with Aikido. Aikido is meant to be discovered, like I did. It's sorta like those Jehovah's Witnesses guys that come to your door to convert you...I don't care what message they want to promote, I'm just annoyed that someone made me get up from watching TV.

Last edited by Roman Kremianski : 04-01-2007 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 04-02-2007, 09:58 AM   #15
Takumi
 
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Re: is it at all possible?

I believe that Aikido is a personal path. You can't impose it, or stop other "evil people" with it. Its a door to follow the way with.

As Morpheus said to Neo in "The Matrix", "I can only show you the door, you have to walk through it." (or something to that effect) You can only show these "evil people" the door to Aikido/peace/or whatever you are trying to get across. They have to walk through it on their own.

If you mean physically, then there is a whole other way.
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Old 04-07-2007, 11:59 AM   #16
Mark Uttech
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Re: is it at all possible?

One translation of Shikagatanai reads: "There's no other way of dealing with it. leave it up to the Buddha..."

In gassho

Mark
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Old 04-07-2007, 04:44 PM   #17
msorses
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Re: is it at all possible?

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote: View Post
One translation of Shikagatanai reads: "There's no other way of dealing with it. leave it up to the Buddha..."

In gassho

Mark
Like the Muslim 'Allah's will' - the way I see it is that if you cannot do something about it you can still work around it. Admittedly it doesn't always work but. But from a couple of things others have said, by becoming a role model (and not necessarily directly doing something about 'X') you can influence other's behaviour and ultimately (maybe only theoretically) everyone's.

Make sense? Maybe I will go and read up on some quantum physics now!

Chris
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Old 04-08-2007, 11:44 AM   #18
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: is it at all possible?

Cor flamin 'eck son!! ..... my dad said to me look after No1 and look after those who look after No1 but have compassion for others as well!! you can't look after and do everything right for everybody all of the time.... just try to do what is right!!..... when you can...
Tony
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:15 PM   #19
msorses
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Re: is it at all possible?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Cor flamin 'eck son!! ..... my dad said to me look after No1 and look after those who look after No1 but have compassion for others as well!! you can't look after and do everything right for everybody all of the time.... just try to do what is right!!..... when you can...
Tony
Hi Tony,

I totally agree, maybe my message went off on a wild tangent lol! I think I had some wacky spiritual flash, or was it something in the water?

Chris
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Old 04-15-2007, 09:16 PM   #20
mwible
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Re: is it at all possible?

yes i agree with many of the other people who replied to this post. people will live there own lives. we as aikidoka are not here to change there ideals, but to live the art of peace ourselves, not to force it upon others.
what you propose sounds to much like old christianity to me. they believed they were right in the matter of believing in jesus as christ the lord, and yet others felt differently. so they killed them and converted them.
who is right? no one. and everyone.
everyone is different. just try to live the best life you can, be kind and courteous even to those who would wish to distain you. but never backdown from any challenge(physical ofcourse, words cant hurt you as your 3rd grade teacher told you).
live this way and hopefully others will see the eace of our path, and join us upon it. and if not, then o-well, its their loss.
and as o'sensei said "smile, it's contageous"
words to live by in my book.
-in aiki
-morgan
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