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Old 04-01-2007, 11:40 AM   #76
DH
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Not to disparage, but just to make an observation, the "Hidden in Plain Sight" part of a lot of this is affected by the fact that there are too many "full cups", not only in Aikido, but many other arts, as well.

It's a waste of time talking to the people with cups that are already full..... but they're the same ones who came to dominate Aikido for too long and who put Aikido in a position where so many are saying "wait a minute.... something must be missing". It's not only Hidden in Plain Sight, it's Ignored When it's in Plain Sight.
Best.

Mike
All good Points Mike I don't think its just Aikido that ran out of gas. its everywhere. I have folks in my dojo who have trained with the parent art of Aikido-DRAJJ. Folks who trained with the best DRAJJ men in the world who will openly tell you most of the guys in that art...just don't get it. I've had people from DRAJJ look at me and say WTF? They couldn't explain me doing their art's waza better than most in their own art. They've recounted failing at aiki-age (peng jin) and being told "More work!" Then I actually use "words" and hands-on and help them to fix it. Not that I do DRAJJ- I don't. And I ain't much!!
If you recall Rob said the same thing when a Sagawa student -who was known- walked in to their class and he had nothing, no structure, and how that could be- when he trained with one of the best in the world. We were just discussing this over dinner last night after a seminar. That perhaps this emptyness is prevelant in all these arts. That and whether or not we were a contributing factor to this downward trend or it originated with teachers unwilling or unable to teach.
My guess is its a combination of all of the above. then again I know several Asian teachers who today, this very day, do not show the majority of students what and how to do the real stuff.
Caveate emptor

Last edited by DH : 04-01-2007 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 04-01-2007, 01:56 PM   #77
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I've never met the man who said that-who had a clue. In fact everyone every, single, one acknowledged they were dealing with something unknown to them.
Dan, what are you talking about here? Every single who? Every one who said internal is natural? Who is the "every, single, one"??

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
In and of itself-it proves you don't understand internal skills so you relegate them to what you see.
Dan, what are you talking about here? "In and of itself" what? It proves it because of the "every, single, one"? I'm not following your line of logic.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
You should go meet someone who instead of saying they got it-actually does.
If ever I've heard a case of, "pot calling the kettle black", this is it. Someone who simply "says they have it", Dan that's your life story. Google your name, then Google one of my teachers. From the results you get who is more likely the one simply "saying they have it"?

You talk an a lot Dan. But who are your teachers? Who are your students? Where is your School? What rank do you have in ANYTHING? What organizations do you belong to. What have you publicly accomplished?

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Old 04-01-2007, 02:31 PM   #78
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
You talk an a lot Dan. But who are your teachers? Who are your students? Where is your School? What rank do you have in ANYTHING? What organizations do you belong to. What have you publicly accomplished?
"Publicly", Dan has had some Aikido and other teachers... ones who apparently have schools, "rank", and organizations... indicate that Dan has some skills that they haven't encountered/experienced/learned from pretty well-known teachers, etc. So essentially, without getting into personal slashing, it's archived that Dan has *something* that supports what he's posting about so-called "slashing". So he's got it publicly recorded (whether I agree with him or not; whether I personally think much of his personality or not) that he probably has something along those lines.

Who's posting support for your knowledge of jin/kokyu/ki things, Chris, if you don't mind me asking?

When I see all the posters who "already have this stuff", I'm frankly stunned that Ikeda was so blind that he didn't realize the same stuff he's pulled in Ushiro Sensei to teach was already rampant in Aikido. Who knew?

Regards,

Mike Sigman
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Old 04-01-2007, 02:46 PM   #79
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Chris,

I've never met Dan so I can't comment on his skills from personal knowledge.

On the other hand, I have met and trained with Mike as well as Rob and Akuzawa. And I can say, that what they do is different from what I have seen and felt in judo. You might respond that I haven't seen the real judo. However I have worked out with (read: got my ass kicked by ) some players from one of the top programs in the US.

There are similarities between judo that I've felt, and Aunkai, but at a basic level what Akuzawa is teaching and doing feels fundamentally different.

Last edited by Tim Fong : 04-01-2007 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 04-01-2007, 02:53 PM   #80
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Chris please stay on point. Were are talking about methods, arts and what you know, not what you teacher knows and how they may relate.
Arguing your natural movement idea -that Baseball and tennis is just as good a vehicle for learning internal skills as CMA or JMA. I wonder why anyone would take up martial arts? Why athletes don't do so well in them?
a. Is it because internal skills don't matter that much?
b. Is it because technique rule the day?
What do you think?
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Old 04-01-2007, 05:14 PM   #81
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Chris please stay on point.
You brought up the point that I should train with some people who "You should go meet someone who instead of saying they got it-actually does."

All I am asking is who have you trained under that "actually does".

I'm willing to go so far as to say you spontaneously came up with some spectacular stuff, but then we haven't seen you do anything. Or should I say the vast majority of us haven't seen you do anything. I know there is lots hearsay, about this fellow or that who has seen you, but I don't know any of these people, neither does any one else.

Even your greatest proponent Mike Sigman hasn't met you. At least Mike as written some books, and been editor on this or that thing. When I ask other internal martial artists who Mike is, they know. But you, no one seems to know who you are.

I'm staying on point Dan, the point you brought up.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Arguing your natural movement idea -that Baseball and tennis is just as good a vehicle for learning internal skills as CMA or JMA. I wonder why anyone would take up martial arts?
Many people take up martial arts to learn to protect themselves. For historical reasons. For social activity. There are lots of reasons other then "chi/ki/Qi" development.[/quote]

[/quote]Why athletes don't do so well in them?
a. Is it because internal skills don't matter that much?
b. Is it because technique rule the day?
What do you think?[/quote]

Most good athletes I've met do very well in the martial arts.

Also you STILL haven't answerd Hafts questions.

Last edited by ChrisHein : 04-01-2007 at 05:16 PM.

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Old 04-01-2007, 05:31 PM   #82
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

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Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Even your greatest proponent Mike Sigman hasn't met you. At least Mike as written some books, and been editor on this or that thing. When I ask other internal martial artists who Mike is, they know. But you, no one seems to know who you are.
Sorry, but if you'll check past postings, I'm not a proponent of Dan's at all. I keep my distance. I understand generally what he does, based on descriptions from a number of different sources (including some of his own sometimes grandiose ones), and the probability is unavoidable that he does and understands some of what the subject topic is. I.e., he has support for his credentials in this discussion. So far, you don't. I'm interested in hearing some of your descriptions of how things work, other than "Oh yeah, I do that, too".

Knowing that the "Oh yeah" posts would be showing up, I posted something in advance about it some time ago in a post directly discussion "Oh yeahs". The only way to get around the problem that so many people are running into is to simply get into the "how to" conversation and show their knowledge. Nothing else will do it; not even claiming that Dan, Mike, Ushiro, Tohei, Rob, and others are rude for talking about something that some teachers don't seem to know, for some reason. So far I have nine teachers that are committed "Oh Yeahs" until they step up to the pump. Or, to put it another way... it's easy to take a shot at someone's personality, their posting-style, or their personal attributes rather than simply lay it out that someone either knows or doesn't know a subject like ki/kokyu/jin. But it would be a lot better if the subject were discussed rather than diverting the thread to another tawdry personality-focused discussion.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
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Old 04-01-2007, 06:00 PM   #83
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Nothing else will do it; not even claiming that Dan, Mike, Ushiro, Tohei, Rob, and others are rude for talking about something that some teachers don't seem to know, for some reason.
For the record, it's not the being rude for talking about things that some teachers don't know that has annoyed me for the last year. It's the fact that all aikido and all aikido teachers are being lumped into the same group of people and painted as teachers of an ineffective art that is diluted/divorced from the teachings of its Founder. It is also the unbelievable grandstanding some people have been doing, I sometimes think that a lot of people involved in this should just do the decent thing and take out an ad for their dojo with Jun. At least he'll get some help running aikiweb that way and we are all using the bandwidth he provides free of charge for what, in some cases, is basically just grandiose self-advertisement (For the sake of avoiding potential unpleasantness note that I am not directing the previous statement to anyone in particular).

Internal skills are IMO the bedrock of aikido, I have always believed this, this is what I have been studying since I started aikido. It is what my teacher has been teaching on a full-time professional basis for 20 years. He isn't the only one either. There is plenty of good aikido out there, it has plenty of internal aspects if you look for it. But, you do need to know what you are looking for before you can find these things. Which is why the debate around here has been useful, all of this confusion could be condensed into a single thread entitled 'how to recognize internal skills when you see them' (You want to start it Mike or shall I? Anyone else?) Such a thread might eliminate the issues that allow these discussions to flourish in all their ugliness.

Regards

Mike

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
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Old 04-01-2007, 06:23 PM   #84
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Just a reminder...if you do want to help Jun out, he has a mechanism on Aikiweb to do so.....then you too can get a shiny yellow star next to your name like me!

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Old 04-01-2007, 06:33 PM   #85
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
I'm willing to go so far as to say you spontaneously came up with some spectacular stuff, but then we haven't seen you do anything. Or should I say the vast majority of us haven't seen you do anything. I know there is lots hearsay, about this fellow or that who has seen you, but I don't know any of these people, neither does any one else.
Well, that's certainly something, I guess. But, hmmm ... when queried, most people know Ron Tisdale. Most people like Ron. Ron's been around the web for quite awhile. Ron met Dan. (I'm sorry to involve you, Ron, but it's a point that needs to be made here.) These people just don't care about us, they'd rather take shots at Dan, Mike, and sometimes Rob. They never get to the heart of the matter, or the important questions.

So, um, how about directing questions to us?
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Old 04-01-2007, 06:37 PM   #86
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Well, that's certainly something, I guess. But, hmmm ... when queried, most people know Ron Tisdale. Most people like Ron. Ron's been around the web for quite awhile. Ron met Dan. (I'm sorry to involve you, Ron, but it's a point that needs to be made here.) These people just don't care about us, they'd rather take shots at Dan, Mike, and sometimes Rob. They never get to the heart of the matter, or the important questions.

So, um, how about directing questions to us?
I'm game......I'll field questions as well.

BTW, great to meet you this weekend and glad you made it back to WVA safely.

Best,

Mark
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Old 04-01-2007, 06:56 PM   #87
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
I'm willing to go so far as to say you spontaneously came up with some spectacular stuff, but then we haven't seen you do anything.
1. I can guaran-freakin-tee you it wasn't spontaneous, but IMO it is spectacular.

2. You say "we haven't seen you do anything". Who exactly is we? I've seen and more importantly felt it and he has it. So have a number of folks from all over the country, many of whom even post here or on the other forums. Many of whom have also posted their experiences with him.

Quote:
Or should I say the vast majority of us haven't seen you do anything. I know there is lots hearsay, about this fellow or that who has seen you, but I don't know any of these people, neither does any one else.
My suggestion is if you are looking for a measure of Dan's skills (or Mike's, or Rob's, etc.) and you are not willing to accept opinions from us folks who have but decades of aikido training, then you go see/feel for yourself. If travelling to him isn't something you are willing to do, then you'll never get the answer you claim to be looking for.

You've heard the story of Ueshiba Sensei going to challenge Takeda Sensei to see if he really had something. I'm told that's how it was done in the old days. Budo men would travel far and wide, issue challenges, and engage in martial combat, in search of [superior] skills to add to their own. The ones who didn't have it sought out the ones who did have it......not the other way around.

Mark
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Old 04-01-2007, 07:00 PM   #88
Gernot Hassenpflug
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Speaking of the "teachers don't show" point in Asia, there's also the "teachers tell their upper-level students not to tell lower-level students". Which means that if one makes some "friends" in the dojo, and especially as a Westerner is fooled by the smiley faces and joyful atmosphere of the dojo (!), and then asks a question about "how" to do something, the answer is most often "I don't know how I do it", or "just concentrate on (some vague and practically useless thing)". So one can get stumped at just about any corner one wishes to try to get around. I've managed to make some real friends who told me about this, otherwise I might have concluded everyone else is as dumb as me!
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Old 04-01-2007, 07:21 PM   #89
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Gernot Hassenpflug wrote: View Post
Speaking of the "teachers don't show" point in Asia, there's also the "teachers tell their upper-level students not to tell lower-level students". Which means that if one makes some "friends" in the dojo, and especially as a Westerner is fooled by the smiley faces and joyful atmosphere of the dojo (!), and then asks a question about "how" to do something, the answer is most often "I don't know how I do it", or "just concentrate on (some vague and practically useless thing)".
One of the better ones I've heard about is when someone asks a direct question, they're told, "Eat more rice". What an insult. And I know a number of people on the forum know who I'm talking about.

Best.

Mike
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Old 04-01-2007, 08:38 PM   #90
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
All I am asking is who have you trained under that "actually does".
Not that Dan needs defending, but if you do your homework on e-budo or aikiweb you'll figure out who he trained under
You're a smart guy afterall, I'm sure you don't need hand holding

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
I'm willing to go so far as to say you spontaneously came up with some spectacular stuff, but then we haven't seen you do anything.
Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Or should I say the vast majority of us haven't seen you do anything. I know there is lots hearsay, about this fellow or that who has seen you, but I don't know any of these people, neither does any one else.
Sure that's like talking about your instructor Tim Cartmell over here in Japan
Most BJJers over here would be like..."who dat??? "
Same thing dude. That doesn't mean that Tim isn't accomplished or skilled, or doesn't have internal skills. Simply means that no one over here has met/heard of him.
The same thing goes for yourself and Dan, Mike or Ark.

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Most good athletes I've met do very well in the martial arts.
"Martial Arts" is to vague Chris.
Here's an example:

Wushu performers are excellent athletes, they also practice "martial arts." Does that mean they possess the skills that Mike, Dan or Ark have? (Even the training methods look similar to what we do externally)
Uh. No. And that's pretty cut and dry.
(And that's from experience, having met/felt people, not talking out of my ass)
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Old 04-01-2007, 08:49 PM   #91
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

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Robert John wrote: View Post
Sure that's like talking about your instructor Tim Cartmell over here in Japan
Most BJJers over here would be like..."who dat??? "
Same thing dude. That doesn't mean that Tim isn't accomplished or skilled, or doesn't have internal skills. Simply means that no one over here has met/heard of him.
The same thing goes for yourself and Dan, Mike or Ark.
Not me, Bub. Ask Michiko, Tomiko, or any of the ko-sisters. They've all heard of me.
Quote:
Wushu performers are excellent athletes, they also practice "martial arts." Does that mean they possess the skills that Mike, Dan or Ark have? (Even the training methods look similar to what we do externally)
Uh. No. And that's pretty cut and dry.
(And that's from experience, having met/felt people, not talking out of my ass)
I know you've met people, Rob, and so have I. There are a lot of clueless people, but there are also a LOT of people that have a clue but don't say much. The Hong Kong Sanda (San Shou Tao) team went to Szechuan Province to show the mainland Chinese team how skilled was Wing Chun and other staples of Hong Kong martial arts. The average bout lasted 13 seconds. Let's be careful about how "unknown" a lot of this information is.

Best.

Mike
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Old 04-01-2007, 08:53 PM   #92
Pete Rihaczek
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Robert John wrote: View Post
That's a pretty big statement to make...
I've rolled with BJJ blacks over here that've never felt this stuff before. Maybe Pete can chime in on his experiences (who trained with the a4Mbar g0d Rickson Gracie himself back in the day? )
Whoops, just saw this. I trained with Rickson for a significant amount of time back in the day, rolled with Royce, Royler, Rorion, Rigan Machado, etc. While I'm dropping names, I've also trained with Dan Inosanto, Paul Vunak, Pendekar Paul DeThouars, and felt the other three DeThouars brothers, Burton Richardson, William Cheung and other Wing Chun people, some scary Thai boxers (there's a reliable style), and lots of other people more obscure in name but not in ability from a variety of styles. Oh yes, and Aikido too. With all those names you'd think I have some ability, but it just goes to show what name dropping is good for. But I've been around and seen quite a bit over the years. When I saw Mike talking about internal stuff I asked some questions, and from written description it didn't sound like anything unusual or different, but I filed it away for reference. Then when the opportunity to see Mike came about, I went and saw for myself. Surprise! Like everybody else, it was different than what I expected, and completely different from any other art or practitioner I'd encountered.

So, this is the norm. You think you know, but there's a very good chance you don't, and anyone who is a card-carrying martial artist without a bias against finding out he hasn't seen it all will go check for himself. There are more than enough experienced straight shooters that have gone to see Mike, Dan, etc. and posted here about it that this shouldn't be a serious issue anymore for anyone who bothers to check the archives.
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Old 04-01-2007, 08:57 PM   #93
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Honestly I don't know how I got so wrapped up in all this nonsense. I can see it's fruitless now.

I apologize to Howard Chan.

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Old 04-01-2007, 09:08 PM   #94
Haowen Chan
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Mike Haft wrote: View Post
all of this confusion could be condensed into a single thread entitled 'how to recognize internal skills when you see them'
There are lots of common phenomena-based tests I've found while reading on this on the interwebs.

I like the list posted by Mark Murray in the "internal power" thread:

1. Have someone push your chest with one hand in an attempt to push you over. Really push.
2. Then two hands as hard as he can. We're talking total 100% full force of whole body pushing you.
3. Then have him pile drive into you.
4. Then even casually.. increasing to severely- pull you and push you around while you stand there without moving your feet. Let them have your wrist and let them pull you for all their worth.
5. Place your hand on his chest. Without moving your shoulders or body in any discernable way, send them 3-6' with your hand.

I grabbed this from a Kokikai site, referring to Shuji Maruyama sensei

"You push on Sensei, and it feels like pushing against a huge boulder covered with foam rubber - soft, yet immovable."

I remember reading a post where someone described pushing on Mike Sigman as "pouring energy into a hole": I believe much the same type of feeling as the above, since Mike describes it as "redirecting the pushing force into the ground".

And of course we have the well-known Ki-society ki-tests.

It's quite easy to understand the commonalities even if one is not a practitioner - I knew nothing about ki (beyond my own old misconceptions about some kind of mystical "life force") before reading about this stuff for a few weeks.

Physiologically I believe the nutshell consensus from those who have tried to explain it plainly is, "ki/kokyu/jin" is a form of body sensitivity and coordination that allows accurate, efficient force redirection through the whole human body.

I believe the bigger problem that the high-level sensei are trying to get at is how to teach this incredibly unintuitive skill more effectively. That's a tough problem for far, far wiser heads than mine.

Last edited by Haowen Chan : 04-01-2007 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 04-01-2007, 10:41 PM   #95
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Not me, Bub. Ask Michiko, Tomiko, or any of the ko-sisters. They've all heard of me.
I know you've met people, Rob, and so have I. There are a lot of clueless people, but there are also a LOT of people that have a clue but don't say much. The Hong Kong Sanda (San Shou Tao) team went to Szechuan Province to show the mainland Chinese team how skilled was Wing Chun and other staples of Hong Kong martial arts. The average bout lasted 13 seconds. Let's be careful about how "unknown" a lot of this information is.

Best.

Mike
Hey hey hey, I meant the Wushu Taolu guys...Sanda team would be a tooootally different story, I'd be the first to admit that
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Old 04-01-2007, 11:39 PM   #96
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
Honestly I don't know how I got so wrapped up in all this nonsense. I can see it's fruitless now.

I apologize to Howard Chan.
Hi Chris,

Actually, having just read the rest of this thread, I agree. Your definition of internal is not the same as Mike's, I can promise you that. This stuff is more complicated and unusual than you think. I've trained with some of the best BJJ'ers on the planet, and they simply don't have it to any meaningful degree, and nobody would who doesn't pursue it deliberately. Someone like Rickson doesn't *need* it to be great obviously, which is important to underscore because no one is saying you can't be a great fighter/athlete/artist without it, but even the best don't get any of this just as some freebie that comes along with their other practice. You are, of course, as free to ignore that as anyone else is, and it probably won't impact your life much to do so.
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Old 04-02-2007, 12:29 AM   #97
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Pete Rihaczek wrote: View Post
Hi Chris,
Someone like Rickson doesn't *need* it to be great obviously,
Damn. There goes one pet theory I had. I remember a few years ago, when Rickson came to Japan to wrestle Nobuhiko Takada, seeing a TV special that showed clips of Rickson working out. He was shown doing some very odd-looking body movements and breath exercises, and lately I've been pondering the possibility that he got some internal training from somewhere and used it to supplement his GJJ, and that was why he was so unbeatable. Some of the statements made by Japanese guys who'd competed against him also seemed to lead in this direction. I can't recall anything specific, but stuff to the effect that he was simply unmovable when he got the mount, and that he felt different from other guys. But if you've felt him and say he didn't have it, well...crap.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:24 AM   #98
Gernot Hassenpflug
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Rob made a great point a few posts back about many people using one or more "components" of internal strength, any of which are useful in their own right. But training a specific skill set in accordance with internal principles is a whole different ballgame.
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:30 AM   #99
Upyu
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Quote:
Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
Damn. There goes one pet theory I had. I remember a few years ago, when Rickson came to Japan to wrestle Nobuhiko Takada, seeing a TV special that showed clips of Rickson working out. He was shown doing some very odd-looking body movements and breath exercises, and lately I've been pondering the possibility that he got some internal training from somewhere and used it to supplement his GJJ, and that was why he was so unbeatable. Some of the statements made by Japanese guys who'd competed against him also seemed to lead in this direction. I can't recall anything specific, but stuff to the effect that he was simply unmovable when he got the mount, and that he felt different from other guys. But if you've felt him and say he didn't have it, well...crap.
Heh, you don't need to have all the skills that've been talked about on this forum to be able to be "unmovable" from the mount. So it wouldn't surprise me if Rickson had some different components tied up nicely in his own way.
There is a HUGE disparity in BJJ guys though. Guys that get tech oriented, and ones that rely more on their structure/postural balance to do simple techs. The manipulation of their internal skills is pretty limited to keeping balance..then again most of the time, what more do you need within that ruleset? (Create space, get position, have base, crank it the #$"k on )
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Old 04-02-2007, 01:59 AM   #100
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Ki-Aikido or Taiji - effectiveness in developing Qi?

Wow, months of discussion and trying to understand and NOW several of you guys admit that it is possible that top notch BJJ guys may have "components" of internal skill!

I have been arguing this point all along! jeesh!

It would make sense that they would figure out how to be effective and efficient in this way.

could it be that these guys like Rickson have found a balance between what works?

Could it be that guys like Mike and Rob etc...have basically isolated and refined methodologies for teaching these things, yet maybe most of them cannot bridge the gap to demonstrating incorporating these skills in a much more alive environment?

Not trying to insult you guys at all...contrary...

To me it would be like a PhD that specializes in a particular focus, yet has not figured out how to implement it into a sustainable, money making practice in the real world yet.

We need both for sure in order to grow as a martial society.

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