Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Language

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-29-2007, 10:15 AM   #1
mjhacker
 
mjhacker's Avatar
Dojo: Renshinkan
Location: Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 198
United_States
Offline
Re: George Ledyard on the Future of Aikido

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
BRAVO!!!!!!! DIG DEEPER,DOKA!
Jennifer,

I've seen you use the term "doka" on a couple of occasions. I'm confused as to what you mean by it.

Michael

Michael Hacker
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Renshinkan
http://renshindojo.com/

自由心流合気武道 - 鍛心館
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 11:06 AM   #2
jennifer paige smith
 
jennifer paige smith's Avatar
Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
United_States
Offline
Re: George Ledyard on the Future of Aikido

Quote:
Michael Hacker wrote: View Post
Jennifer,

I've seen you use the term "doka" on a couple of occasions. I'm confused as to what you mean by it.

Michael
Hello Michael,
The word doka refers to 'songs of the way' or living poetic teaching. Aikidoists are also often refered to as Aikidoka. O'Sensei was such a language player, and in that vein I have come to use the word 'doka' to refer to ourselves as the 'living songs of the way.' It is an accurate, albeit, poetic interpretation. I feel like a vibrational song of this great path whenever i practice or reflect on my path. It is an amazingly powerful sensation. So, there's my definition.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 11:08 AM   #3
mjhacker
 
mjhacker's Avatar
Dojo: Renshinkan
Location: Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 198
United_States
Offline
Re: George Ledyard on the Future of Aikido

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
Hello Michael,
The word doka refers to 'songs of the way' or living poetic teaching. Aikidoists are also often refered to as Aikidoka. O'Sensei was such a language player, and in that vein I have come to use the word 'doka' to refer to ourselves as the 'living songs of the way.' It is an accurate, albeit, poetic interpretation. I feel like a vibrational song of this great path whenever i practice or reflect on my path. It is an amazingly powerful sensation. So, there's my definition.
Interesting.

Thanks for the clarification.

Michael Hacker
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Renshinkan
http://renshindojo.com/

自由心流合気武道 - 鍛心館
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 02:08 PM   #4
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: George Ledyard on the Future of Aikido

Accurate? Anyone here know the kanji for aikidoka vs the kanji for doka? I'm betting they are not the same. And Ueshiba Sensei is not likely to have made a pun on the romanji (or however that would be stated...)

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 02:56 PM   #5
Mashu
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 106
Offline
Re: "Doka"

合気道家 aikidouka

道歌 douka

----------------------------------
天漢 tenkan

癲癇 tenkan

道家 douka

:-)

Last edited by Mashu : 03-29-2007 at 02:58 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 03:04 PM   #6
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: "Doka"

Thanks Mathew...care to add a little explanation to go with the kanji? For instance what is the difference between the ones above vs the ones below the line?

Thanks,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 03:08 PM   #7
Mashu
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 106
Offline
Re: "Doka"

合気道家 aikidouka<-- last two are way and practitioner.

道歌 douka<-- these two are way and song.

----------------------------------
天漢 tenkan<-- this tenkan is Milky Way
癲癇 tenkan<--this tenkan is epileptic fit

道家 douka<-- this douka is Taoist

:-)
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2007, 04:37 PM   #8
mjhacker
 
mjhacker's Avatar
Dojo: Renshinkan
Location: Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 198
United_States
Offline
Re: "Doka"

Odd... I don't remember starting a thread. Anyhoo...

Linguistically, the reference would be completely lost on a native Japanese speaker.

Perhaps I'm a bit too much of a language nazi for my own good.

Last edited by mjhacker : 03-29-2007 at 04:45 PM.

Michael Hacker
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Renshinkan
http://renshindojo.com/

自由心流合気武道 - 鍛心館
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 04:34 AM   #9
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: George Ledyard on the Future of Aikido

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
.......It is an accurate, albeit, poetic interpretation.......
More a poetic interpretation methinks, but highly unlikely accurate

I'm far from a language expert in Japanese but the "doka" in "doka is completely different to the "doka" in "aikidoka". As Matthew has already iterated, "doka" on it's own means song, whilst "aikidoka" is actually adding the word "ka" (professional) to Aikido, i.e. a professional aikido person.

See these old threads for discussions on the use of "aikidoka".

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...a+professional

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...a+professional

rgds
Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 08:03 AM   #10
jennifer paige smith
 
jennifer paige smith's Avatar
Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
United_States
Offline
Re: "Doka"

Well then, you don't need to use it this way.

The kanji routine is always fun. Ai and Ai.
hi michael
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 08:40 AM   #11
mjhacker
 
mjhacker's Avatar
Dojo: Renshinkan
Location: Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 198
United_States
Offline
Re: "Doka"

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
Well then, you don't need to use it this way.
Gee, thanks for your permission. :-p

Quote:
The kanji routine is always fun. Ai and Ai.
Oh, believe me... I'm quite the punster in Japanese.

Quote:
hi michael
Hi back atcha. Are we still on for lunch next time I'm up there?

Michael Hacker
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Renshinkan
http://renshindojo.com/

自由心流合気武道 - 鍛心館
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 09:15 AM   #12
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: "Doka"

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the tips. You didn't start a new thread, Jun did when I strayed off topic!

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 09:27 AM   #13
mjhacker
 
mjhacker's Avatar
Dojo: Renshinkan
Location: Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 198
United_States
Offline
Re: George Ledyard on the Future of Aikido

Quote:
Bryan Bateman wrote: View Post
...whilst "aikidoka" is actually adding the word "ka" (professional) to Aikido, i.e. a professional aikido person.
I think you make an excellent point here... one which, I think, is generally not understood by Aikidō people who don't speak Japanese. The suffix -ka suggests a degree of seriousness and accomplishment in one's pursuit.

家 (ka/ke) means "house" or "family." As such, it shows that you're considered by the family to be one of them. I think that's significant.

When referring, for instance, to the Ueshiba family, you could say 植芝家 (Ueshiba-ke), whereas a serious Aikidō practitioner would be 合気道家 (Aikidō-ka). There may be a bit of poetic license involved in translating Aikidō-ka as being part of an "Aikidō family," but poetic license never kilt nobody. (A poetic license to kill, on the other hand...)

It is, IMO, just as improper for an writing enthusiast to refer to himself as an author (作家 sak-ka) as it is for a relatively junior Aikidō student to refer to him or herself as an Aikidō-ka. Maybe this all just boils down to cultural-linguistic differences.

Or... maybe I'm just too serious about this language stuff. :-)

Michael Hacker
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Renshinkan
http://renshindojo.com/

自由心流合気武道 - 鍛心館
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 09:29 AM   #14
mjhacker
 
mjhacker's Avatar
Dojo: Renshinkan
Location: Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 198
United_States
Offline
Freaky! Re: "Doka"

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote: View Post
Thanks for the tips.
I gave tips??? Crap. Sorry 'bout that.

Quote:
You didn't start a new thread, Jun did when I strayed off topic!
Why does it always seem like that Jun guy is spying on me... O_o

Michael Hacker
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Renshinkan
http://renshindojo.com/

自由心流合気武道 - 鍛心館
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2007, 12:36 PM   #15
jennifer paige smith
 
jennifer paige smith's Avatar
Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
United_States
Offline
Re: "Doka"

Quote:
Michael Hacker wrote: View Post
Gee, thanks for your permission.
Certainly not permission. Unless it is'per' your 'mission' Anyone who doesn't like something for themselves is free to ignore it..:-p

Oh, believe me... I'm quite the punster in Japanese.
Believe me, I believe you.

Hi back atcha. Are we still on for lunch next time I'm up there?
Si, Senor. Tacos?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2007, 12:40 PM   #16
mjhacker
 
mjhacker's Avatar
Dojo: Renshinkan
Location: Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 198
United_States
Offline
Re: "Doka"

Quote:
Jennifer Smith wrote: View Post
Si, Senor. Tacos?
You'd feed Califnornia Tacos to a man visiting from Arizona??

How cruel...

Michael Hacker
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Renshinkan
http://renshindojo.com/

自由心流合気武道 - 鍛心館
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2007, 07:50 PM   #17
Kent Enfield
 
Kent Enfield's Avatar
Location: Oregon, USA
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 224
United_States
Offline
Re: "Doka"

Quote:
Michael Hacker wrote: View Post
You'd feed Califnornia Tacos to a man visiting from Arizona??

How cruel...
It'd ruin ya for Arizona ones, right?

(If only I could get some even half-way decent tacos . . . I'll just have to settle for tako. It ain't bad, but it sure ain't the same.)

Kentokuseisei
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2007, 12:20 AM   #18
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: "Doka"

Quote:
Kent Enfield wrote: View Post
...... I'll just have to settle for tako. It ain't bad, but it sure ain't the same......
I'll be landing in Japan first thing Wednesday morning, tako is one of the foods I most look forward to whenever I'm there (no smiley for "YUM")

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2007, 12:23 AM   #19
mjhacker
 
mjhacker's Avatar
Dojo: Renshinkan
Location: Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 198
United_States
Offline
Re: "Doka"

Quote:
Kent Enfield wrote: View Post
I'll just have to settle for tako. It ain't bad, but it sure ain't the same.)
I got a Mexican buddy with that once in Aomori... "Hey Jesse, want some tako?"

As it turns out, the joke was on me... that boy would eat ANYTHING. He didn't even pause. Took one look at it, shrugged, and downed it all. Then he went back for seconds.

Michael Hacker
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō - Renshinkan
http://renshindojo.com/

自由心流合気武道 - 鍛心館
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2007, 06:23 AM   #20
gdandscompserv
 
gdandscompserv's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,214
United_States
Offline
Re: "Doka"

mayo tako yaki...mmm
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2007, 10:46 AM   #21
jennifer paige smith
 
jennifer paige smith's Avatar
Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
United_States
Offline
Re: "Doka"

easily amused Doka.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2007, 10:49 AM   #22
jennifer paige smith
 
jennifer paige smith's Avatar
Dojo: Confluence Aiki-Dojo / Santa Cruz Sword Club
Location: Santa Cruz
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,049
United_States
Offline
Re: "Doka"

Quote:
Michael Hacker wrote: View Post
You'd feed Califnornia Tacos to a man visiting from Arizona??

How cruel...
I'm fairly sure I couldn't provide CalifNornia tacos to anyone.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2007, 04:21 PM   #23
Eddie Heinzelman
 
Eddie Heinzelman's Avatar
Dojo: Atemi-Ryu Jujitsu/Chendokan Aikido
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 23
United_States
Offline
Re: "Doka"

I understand it as Michael Hacker explained above. Karateka, Aikidoka, Jujitsuka, etc. are those who are practicioners of that particular art.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:22 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate