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Old 01-14-2002, 09:41 PM   #1
William E.
Dojo: USA Martial Arts, Genoa, OH
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Randori

Greetings!

I'm very new to Aikido (only 9 months of trainig) and I'm 100% hooked!

Does anyone have any training tips to prepare for Randori (on my own & outside of class)?

Frankly, I'll take any suggestions, tips, or hints (inside or out of the Randori experience).

Thanks In Advance!
William
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Old 01-15-2002, 12:26 AM   #2
MaylandL
Location: Western Australia
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 241
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Welcome to the wonderful world of aikido and I'm glad to hear that you are enjoying your training.

The fundamentals of aikido are: good centre/posture, movement and technique. All of these have to be in place if your techniques are to work.

In practicing for randori, start off with your basic movements and posture by practicing basic footwork and movement(irimi, tenkan etc). You can place obstacles on the ground and move around them with basic footwork and movements both standing up and on your knees. Set up a video camera and film yourself. show the fil to a training partner and ask them to critique.

Practice your technique by "shadow boxing", that is visualise imaginary attacks and do the technique.

I've commandeered my lounge room to do this sort of personal training.

you might even want to ask the people you train with at your dojo for their advice.

Hope this helps and all the best for your training and practice.

Mayland
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Old 01-15-2002, 12:42 AM   #3
JW
 
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I agree with Maryland's idea that randori
depends on very basic body positioning and
footwork. After 9 months of training you
probably have a decent vocabulary of
basic techniques. HOWEVER: if you are like
many people, then trying to focus on getting
the techniques right or even just remembering
them in time to execute them will destroy your
randori.
In our dojo we often practice a "no-technique"
randori, where you are only allowed to blend with
the attacks and then let the next one come.
Or sometimes we do the same, but you are
allowed to blend and then take balance after
each attack. I practiced a few years before
beginning these excercises, and man it sure
was surprising how little I was actually blending
(using that basic footwork and body positioning
as the FIRST response to an attack). When you
have successfully blended with an attack, and
then choose a way to take uke's balance, you
seriously will not need to think of a technique.
It will just be there staring you and your uke in
the face.
The way I see it, you just have to remember that
blending comes first, and the throws will just
present themselves afterward.
Thanks for reading...
--JonathanW
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Old 01-15-2002, 01:36 AM   #4
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Quote:
Originally posted by William E.
Frankly, I'll take any suggestions, tips, or hints (inside or out of the Randori experience).
I'm assuming you mean the type where several people come after you. For a beginner, these 3 things often do wonders.

1. Go where they ain't. In other words, go to the empty spaces on the mat.

2. You don't have to throw your attackers, not even once. This is the most common mistake I see in randori. People get hung up on trying to throw someone and someone else gets them. The trick is not to let anyone get cleanly ahold of you. Often easier said than done.

3. Keep moving. Kind of the same thing as number too, but sometimes different words help to convey a point.

Randori is, and has pretty much always been, my favorite part of this art.

Last edited by Erik : 01-15-2002 at 01:46 AM.
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Old 01-15-2002, 05:43 AM   #5
leefr
Location: South Korea
Join Date: Aug 2000
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I think just walking along crowded streets in itself can be a wonderful form of awareness and movement training, especially when you're going 'against the flow' of the people around you. Irimi is itself not so different from the natural way we move around other people coming in our direction. What makes it even more difficult is that other people aren't coming straight at you to hit you as in the dojo; they'll move to avoid you as well, and predicting how they're going to move is surprisingly difficult - expect to bump into quite a few people this way.
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Old 01-15-2002, 08:47 AM   #6
JMCavazos
Dojo: Aikido Center of South Texas
Location: Houston,Tx
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These are a few of the things that I try to do during a randori:

1. Try to keep everybody in front of you.
2. Once the attack has begun, it is OK for you to initiate attacks. In other words, don't feel that you have to wait for the uke to come to you, you can move towards the uke(s).
3. Don't stop moving
4. Go to the open places on the mat
5. Don't try to think of techniques - it is almost impossible to do a technique with 4 people attacking you. Do aikido principles!

I hope this helps you some and good luck. You have begun a journey that has no end!
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Old 01-15-2002, 09:18 AM   #7
akiy
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Erik
1. Go where they ain't. In other words, go to the empty spaces on the mat.
As one of my previous teachers said, "There's so much more empty space on the mat than the three attackers. Why focus on the people so much?"
Quote:
2. You don't have to throw your attackers, not even once. This is the most common mistake I see in randori.
My current teacher, whenever he oversees randori for a yundansha exam, always says, "No need to throw -- just move." I think I've seen him oversee at least a hundred yudansha exams so far and I've never heard him say, "I want you to stand still, grab a hold of your partner, and do as many techniques as you know"...
Quote:
3. Keep moving.
I think, personally, more importantly, "Keep moving forward."

-- Jun

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Old 01-15-2002, 01:33 PM   #8
Jonathan
Dojo: North Winnipeg Aikikai
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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I watched a sandan test where the person being tested had very good waza but very poor randori skill. The shihan testing him had only one piece of advice: "Tai sabaki, practice more tai sabaki!"

"Iron sharpens iron; so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend."
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Old 01-15-2002, 03:04 PM   #9
Jim ashby
Dojo: Phoenix Coventry
Location: Coventry, England
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Randori

Hi.
Best advice I ever had was to practice with comitted attackers with your hands tucked into your belt. Sharpens up your reactions/tai sabaki enormously!
Have fun.

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
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Old 01-15-2002, 04:14 PM   #10
Erik
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally posted by akiy
"Keep moving forward."
Yep, should have used that. Thanks for the add-on.
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Old 01-15-2002, 07:37 PM   #11
Mares
Location: Australia
Join Date: Aug 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by leefr
I think just walking along crowded streets in itself can be a wonderful form of awareness and movement training, especially when you're going 'against the flow' of the people around you. Irimi is itself not so different from the natural way we move around other people coming in our direction. What makes it even more difficult is that other people aren't coming straight at you to hit you as in the dojo; they'll move to avoid you as well, and predicting how they're going to move is surprisingly difficult - expect to bump into quite a few people this way.
Thank you for that. I remember years ago my Sensei doing a demonstration similar to what u are talking about. I thought it was all a bit weird. But it just clicked in my head.

Many thanks
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Old 01-16-2002, 05:34 PM   #12
JPT
Dojo: trad
Location: UK
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Against 2 ukes.
When you throw your first uke try to make them land between yourself & the next uke. So that the 2nd uke has to either move around or step over uke number 1. This will give you a fraction of a second more to compose yourself before the next attack. Note:- do not throw uke 1 directly into uke 2 as one of them will get hurt!.
Get your sensei to show you how to control a person with Sankyo (so that you can move them forwards & Backwards). When you know how to do this, you will be able to move uke's body so that is between yourself & uke 2, therefore acting as shield from the next attack.

Last edited by JPT : 01-16-2002 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 01-17-2002, 08:58 PM   #13
Chocolateuke
Dojo: Muhu Dojo
Location: Middle of nowhere in California 14 miles from Buellton
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Unhappy

when I do randori I just say to myself that this is a self defence system do not i repeate to not kill that ant thats on ukes toe!

Dallas Adolphsen
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Old 01-18-2002, 10:24 PM   #14
Aiki Teacher
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland , TX
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United_States
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Smile Randori

1. Move forward.
2. Learn to cut the angles of attack.
3. Throw into other attackers.
4. Don't admire your throws.
5. Don't back up, as the circle will close in around you .
6. Remember to breathe. A lot of people run out of steam because they do not breathe.
7. Remember, down is always good. Throw the attacker down.
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Old 01-21-2002, 06:27 AM   #15
jk
Location: Indonesia
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Randori practice...

How 'bout a nice little game of "Kill the man (or woman) with the ball?" Love that game...

Regards,
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Old 01-22-2002, 05:40 PM   #16
tedehara
 
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Question Randori

Quote:
Originally posted by William E.
...Does anyone have any training tips to prepare for Randori (on my own & outside of class)?...
Thanks In Advance!
William
I'd like to ask for an explaination of your question. The Japanese word randori is usually used in aikido as a multi-person attack versus one person. Therefore 2+ persons attacking an aikidoist would be considered randori.

However the word randori is also used, as in judo, as a one-on-one practice. Therefore you could also be talking about practicing aikido with one person.

Most of the suggestions are assuming that you mean the multi-person attack. However, I'm thinking that you might be talking about the one-on-one training, since you've started aikido and usually don't have to worry about multi-person attacks until you get to around black belt level.

What do you mean by randori? Is this a multi-person attack on one person or is it one-on-one training?

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
About You
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Old 01-24-2002, 02:01 AM   #17
Anat Amitay
Dojo: Nes- Ziona, "the red house"
Location: Israel
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Israel
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Hints to randori

Hi there
I guess most of the good hints were already written, so this might be new or overlapping with someone elses suggestion.
As I understood, you were asking for advice for working alone (?) outside the dojo.
'Two- steps' is always something you can do at home or any other place. It might look boring, not changing, but practising it alot will show results later on.
Another thing is walking around the house always keeping your hands infront of you (helps you stay connected to your center). This will help you out later in not leaving your hands behind when you do different techniques (like Shionage, Iriminage...).
It's preferable to do this at home, outside people will look at you strangely !
I liked the idea of walking in crowded streets, I think it's great!
There is another thing that I learned from a totally different direction. It's the idea of walking in an 8 shaped pattern. There is a therapy for dislecsy in this fashion and it is said to help connect neurons in the brain, but also keep focus, concentration etc.
I'm writing this in a very unproffectional way, but the training itself, putting 2 chairs apart and walking around them in an 8 shape while concentating on a specific point is said to help.
I've been doing it, but not long enough to say if there's any difference, but it certainly can't hurt.
It's also a good way of training to move around obstacles, so it probably contributs something.
Hope this helped, and continue to enjoy Aikido!
Anat
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Old 01-24-2002, 08:02 AM   #18
Abasan
Dojo: Aiki Shoshinkan, Aiki Kenkyukai
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Anat,

do you fix your body position so as to face only that one point at all time whilst doing the figure of 8 or do you turn your body as your walk?

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 01-24-2002, 11:08 PM   #19
Anat Amitay
Dojo: Nes- Ziona, "the red house"
Location: Israel
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Israel
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Circle Turn your body

Quote:
Originally posted by Abasan
Anat,

do you fix your body position so as to face only that one point at all time whilst doing the figure of 8 or do you turn your body as your walk?
Abasan,

You trun your body as you walk.
Think about surfing (with just the surf, not wind surfing). The movement you make with your body when riding the waves, when turning the surf 180 degrees. Of course on a surf board you don't move your legs, but a good surfer moves his body- and center - to control the surf board.
That is the idea of movement. On the ground, it's hard to learn to move that way if you don't use your legs. Research has found that walking in an 8 shape makes the body move in much the same way .
Good training!
Anat
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Old 01-30-2002, 05:07 AM   #20
Creature_of_the_id
 
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my main advice for randori:

relax!

let it happen

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Old 01-30-2002, 09:25 AM   #21
ian
 
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Beware of too much 'attack initiation' which often results in just slapping people around with a crap irimi nage.

Points:

1. ukes will tend to move at the same speed as you - take it very slowly, especially at the start.

2. generally uke chooses the technique i.e. the technique you do depend on ukes actions and can't be decided beforehand

3. relax and pace yourself

4. keep on the edge of a group

5. It is more important to move your body than do a technique. If someone stops the attack or there is 'premature detatchment', you can just move away (preferably to their rear or side). Just slipping past somone is also the way to get through a tight fix.


Ian
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Old 02-11-2002, 05:17 PM   #22
PeterPhilippson
Dojo: Stockport Aikido Club
Location: Manchester, UK
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Randori

There are many graded exercises I have been taught to teach:
Ukes all coming in with the same one or two attacks;
Evasion against 3 people attacking chudan tsuki;
Kokyu throws against a number of ukes in line who can do any attack;
Set attack/technique against many ukes in a circle.

The other thing which hasn't been mentioned is to have the experience of being hit and still going on.

Best wishes,

Peter

Last edited by PeterPhilippson : 02-11-2002 at 05:28 PM.

Peter
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Old 02-27-2002, 01:04 PM   #23
wilson jones
Dojo: Pathway to Harmony
Location: Illinois
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Eek! Re: Randori

Welcome to a whole new world!!! All of the comments are great. I have been practicing Randori off and on for about six months. This is my sixth year studying the art. I'm a big man and First off I know that relaxation and breathing are a must! My Sensei stresses staying to the outside and keep moving. If you get held spin!! Extend "ki" through your arms and they will be like boards. Send them in wide circles as you walk and breathe. If all else fails "RUN"!!

Always teachable
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Old 03-16-2002, 06:49 AM   #24
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
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Randori practice

There are so many good comments about randori!

Sometimes we forget learning how to walk takes much practice, just like some people don't learn to swim, at least with confidence, by being thrown into the water. Sometimes we must repeat the movements on land, slowly, allowing the brain to overcome the fear of sinking and drowning by the repetition of confidence in movements that will keep us from drowning. This sometimes translates empty mind into empty head and that dazed look of an animal in the head lights of an oncoming vehicle? Not uncommon, at one time or another for anyone during randori practice?

I love the crowd practice, walking though a big crowd of people going all which ways. Maybe we should do that more often to begin randori? Walking through three rows of four people loosely assembled is excellant practice. It begins to open the different possibilities of moving through crowds, or intercepting movement. Everyon becomes so enamoured with throwing and being proficient with counter attacks, they don't always remember the billiard principle of redirecting force?

It is easier to redirect those coming toward you, when they can't be avoided, by a bounce or nudge in a slight different direction. Kind of like the bump in a crowd that sends you into someone else, even though it was a slight nudge.

Basically, as in all things that come difficult, you must go back to the beginning, go slowly, and find a path that works for you.

If things move too fast, don't be afraid to try some slower training until your mind adjusts and allows faster more fluid motion as training progresses.

Good Luck.
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