Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-27-2007, 09:32 AM   #1
George S. Ledyard
 
George S. Ledyard's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,639
Offline
Re: Aikido Transmission and Class Size

Quote:
Chuck Clark wrote: View Post
I agree that private time with someone that has what you want and you have the tools to receive the transmission is important and very valuable. However, it's also very important to continue to train and "compete" with as many other quality people as possible. We all need a "feedback loop" in our training.

At a certain point, when we DO what we have been training in properly, it has been my experience that there is very little concious feedback. Usually, others have to tell us what happened.

As far as the Michi or Do aspect of budo is concerned, for myself at any rate, I have the responsibility to lead, teach, and provide the transmission process that I recieved to the best of my ability. If I do this properly, juniors then continue to provide very high quality problems for me to solve so that my own training continues to grow and learning never stops.

George, I especially liked your post #10. We're gonna have fun when we're neighbors...

Best regards,
Actually, Chuck, you are one of my models for how I am trying to break down what I teach. The classes I have done with you are some of the most clearly laid out classes I have ever been to. And I have always walked away with some new understanding in my body, not just in my head.

Since you have actually gone the distance and established your own organization, I'd be interested in hearing how you set things up so that the skills you have get transmitted to the folks down the line and not just to your personal students training with you every day...

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2007, 11:21 AM   #2
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido Transmission and Class Size

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Since you have actually gone the distance and established your own organization, I'd be interested in hearing how you set things up so that the skills you have get transmitted to the folks down the line and not just to your personal students training with you every day...
This is a problem that I have understood for many years in budokai and with teachers I have been around and have observed closely. Jiyushinkai is now twenty-two years old, and in the past ten years or so I have noticed that in our affiliated dojo across the country juniors are learning certain things quicker and better than before. Many of the seniors with thirty to forty years of budo training (or a couple of folks, much more) have discussed this a lot. We think we have some understanding of what's necessary to pass on whatever can be passed on without constant close contact with senior teachers. I have patterned my teaching methods very closely on my experiences/observations in early life with classical music, ballroom, and ballet training. Combined with thorough kihon (principles), proper practice methodology, accute monitoring skills of our own practice, open and even critique (with compassion and care) and then (absolutely necessary) continual checking and auditing our practice for good uke tori relationship combined with true competitive randori (not sport... not tournament, not "combative" etc.) as our true feedback loop we all seem to be learning and growing together with the system being one of the most powerful teaching tools.

Within our system we are fortunate that all of our members are able to get hands on close connection with senior teachers at least two or three times a year without it costing a fortune. It is my goal (and I think all of our seniors' share this) to leave as many students as possible with better skills than ours. Not only better performance skills but having the skills necessary to not only become their own teacher but an instructor and teacher of others.

That is our intent... to talk about this in depth so that it's usable would take several books, or even better, hands on good times in the dojo for as long as we can...

Sorry for the length, but it was a good question, and is important. Whether our method would work for anyone else is another question.

Best regards,

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2007, 11:42 AM   #3
MM
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido Transmission and Class Size

Clark sensei,

Wow, 22 years. I still remember filling out the paper when I first joined (somewhere around 1990). I think the history of the Jiyushinkai would make a great book.

Back to topic, I think that at least one area of your training methodology would work very well in other places -- the "competitive randori". I have yet to find it anywhere else, but it's such a great tool.

Mark
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2007, 11:54 AM   #4
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido Transmission and Class Size

You're preaching to the choir, Mark, and, I'm still working on the book. I'm picky. Actually I'm just getting ready now to redo all of the photos for the book and then it'll come together like a jigsaw puzzle. It's finished in my head and most of the text is done. Of course, I'll make it known when it's available. Of course copies will be available for all Jiyushinkai members... and I wouldn't mind selling a few others. ;-))

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2007, 11:55 AM   #5
crbateman
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
crbateman's Avatar
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,447
Offline
Re: Aikido Transmission and Class Size

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Clark sensei,

Wow, 22 years. I still remember filling out the paper when I first joined (somewhere around 1990). I think the history of the Jiyushinkai would make a great book.
I'd like to second that motion. You two excellent and well-spoken teachers (George and Chuck) are exactly of the caliber that should be writing. It's not as hard to publish as it once was, but you've still got to have something to say, and both of you clearly do. We'd like to hear it. Onegai shimasu.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2007, 12:05 PM   #6
Budd
 
Budd's Avatar
Dojo: Taikyoku Budo
Location: Williamsville, NY
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 931
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido Transmission and Class Size

Count me as being in the line to buy one of those "history of the Jiyushinkai" books.

Last edited by Budd : 02-27-2007 at 12:10 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2007, 01:07 PM   #7
ChrisMoses
Dojo: TNBBC (Icho Ryu Aiki Budo), Shinto Ryu IaiBattojutsu
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 906
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido Transmission and Class Size

Quote:
Chuck Clark wrote: View Post
Chris, I'm a heretic in the minds of many mainstream aikido folks, so file this statement in an appropriate place...

Really good judo and really good aikido (aikibudo, same same) are the the same.
We're on the same island there, the best aikido I think I've ever seen was Mifune Kyuzo. But much like the word aikido (or aikibudo) what I mean when I say, "judo" isn't necessarily what most people think of as judo these days. In overly simplified terms, judo and aikido (for us) is more about maai than anything else. If we're jacket to jacket -> it looks like judo, if we're at arms length -> it looks more like aikido. While the specific points of contact may differ, the total effect on uke should be similar whether one is doing osoto gari or tenchinage, uchi mata or ikkyo. In this way uke also learns what it feels like to really be thrown, and that level of control becomes expected whether or not you're grabbing at the shoulder or the wrist.

Hope that doesn't feel like thread drift, just trying to flush out our methodology a bit more.

Chris Moses
TNBBC, "Putting the ME in MEdiocre!"
Shinto Ryu Iai Battojutsu
TNBBC Blog
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2007, 01:38 PM   #8
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido Transmission and Class Size

Chris,

Yes, any difference other than lineage, etc. is distance. Much of my judo lineage comes down from Mifune Sensei, Kotani Sensei, and Osawa Sensei primarily. My goal was tadashi judo but got side tracked at one point by kyogi judo. I saw the light.

Whatever we do and however we train, it must end in our personal authority that originates from our own discovery and responsibility.

Needless to say, that responsibility is to always be flexible and willing to kill yesterday's practice to attain today's practice.

I'll be in your neck of the woods soon. Next month I'll be teaching at Phil Relnick's Shintokan in Woodinville the weekend of the 17th. And then I'm moving up there in a few months. My son just bought a house about 15 minutes north of that dojo. We will be building our own dojo on his property at soon as possible. You're welcome to visit anytime.

Best regards.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2007, 09:04 PM   #9
Mark Jakabcsin
Dojo: Charlotte Systema, Charlotte, NC
Location: Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 207
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido Transmission and Class Size

Quote:
Chuck Clark wrote: " I have the responsibility to lead, teach, and provide the transmission process that I recieved to the best of my ability. If I do this properly, juniors then continue to provide very high quality problems for me to solve so that my own training continues to grow and learning never stops."

Wow. That quote goes into my training journal and I hope I can live up to it in some small way. The small amount of teaching I have been doing in the last few years has opened my eyes more than I imagined. How I love people with new/different perspectives, as they constantly challenge me to see things in a new light. Chuck you beautifully verbalize what it means to learn from everyone. Thanks.

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
......... I'd be interested in hearing how you set things up so that the skills you have get transmitted to the folks down the line and not just to your personal students training with you every day...
I'll second that. As a post or a book I would really love to hear how you (Chuck and George) teach, how you transmit, and how you communicate. While specific skills are interesting I am finding myself more and more interested in the skill of sharing. This is seldom easy as sharing is generally a two way street and requires as much input as output. I recoginze I have a long way to go here and any assistance is greatly appreciate. Please keep us informed of any public material you have available.

Take care,

Mark J.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Handmade Aikido Gifts - Handmade functional ceramic art with aikido themes



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido And the military. Gallu General 34 11-24-2009 11:07 AM
Jiyushinkai Aikido Seminar in Houston,TX Will Schutt Seminars 1 05-31-2006 01:10 AM
Chuck Clark - Jiyushinkai Aikido in DFW stoker Seminars 0 08-05-2005 09:54 AM
Tomiki to Fugakukai to Jiyushinkai? Jory Boling General 10 04-11-2005 07:52 PM
Jiyushinkai Club at Texas A&M giriasis General 3 02-16-2005 09:42 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:50 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate