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Old 02-24-2007, 09:58 PM   #26
Mike Galante
Dojo: Aikido of North Jersey
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Re: Is this guy for real?

Who's the more foolish...the fool or the fool who follows him?
Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Old 02-24-2007, 10:37 PM   #27
Lorien Lowe
Dojo: Northcoast Aikido
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Re: Is this guy for real?

My screen is showing the nage's belt as <i>pink.</i> Is anyone else seeing that?
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Old 02-25-2007, 09:43 AM   #28
Angela Morton
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Re: Is this guy for real?

Quote:
Stelios Papados wrote: View Post
By the book? Not at all.
I believe aikido needs at least two (or even one) who know aikido. Yes, you can use the learned techniques on the street very efficiently against the brutal force of almost anybody but do not tell me thet you will expect your street uke to employ ukemi or similar body movements when fending off your defence or counter attack.
Anyway, it is always nice to see other approaches to the same matter. Thanks for your opinion mate.
Doesn't matter if an in the street opponent can perform ukemi or not, that isn't the point. I'd like to eventually have the skill to know i can throw someone if attack. Whether they roll or fall flat on their face doesn't matter, i would just want them out of my way so i can get out of theirs. Just because the thug in the roll of uke is poor at unkemi, doesn't mean that what you're doing is not aikido. The point is you should flow around your uke, eve if the uke does not flow.

The techniques are there to teach principles, which then can be used in techniques of your own creation to fit your need. That is still aikido. I can not do aikido, i'm a 5th kyu, i can follow some basic techniques, but not until i can flow and adapt what i am doing so it is the principles and not the techniques i am using shall i really be doing aikido, not with any sort of effectiveness or understanding.

If you couldn't do aikido without a fellow aikidoka then there is no point in it's existence as it wouldn't serve it's perpose. Warriors are not going to act as uke in the sense of a friendly dojo situation, but the techniques and principles where used against them in the past. Aikido is still a martial art, not a dance. if you know and understand it will work. I'm just not at that level yet.

What you do is aikido, whrether what your partner does is aikido or not. The philosophys of aikido can be used in various aspects of life, or so many people say, but not every aspect of life is a fight, so noy everything you face will be an aikidoka. Aikido is more than two people on a mat grabbing and throwing each other into rolls and break falls.
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:42 AM   #29
stelios
Dojo: aikido dojo nippos Crete
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Re: Is this guy for real?

Agree, BUT Aikido (at least as O Sensei wanted it to be) means that no matter how brutal an attack you have to able to defend without doing any harm to your uke. And I believe that, yes, you should care if he lands flat on his face because that will mean that your aikido does not work! Otherwise there is no difference from the next martial art. What do you think?
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:46 AM   #30
grondahl
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Re: Is this guy for real?

Quote:
Stelios Papados wrote: View Post
Agree, BUT Aikido (at least as O Sensei wanted it to be) means that no matter how brutal an attack you have to able to defend without doing any harm to your uke. And I believe that, yes, you should care if he lands flat on his face because that will mean that your aikido does not work! Otherwise there is no difference from the next martial art. What do you think?
I think there is a very big difference between "causing minimal harm to an attacker" and "doing any harm".
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:54 AM   #31
Amir Krause
Dojo: Shirokan Dojo / Tel Aviv Israel
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Re: Is this guy for real?

Actually, this guy is so gifted he does not really exist. He transcended our plane to some higher level and affects us only through his spirit


Quote:
As Aikido will not work with us as nage and someone (non-aikidoka) we do not know as uke.
Have you never worked with a beginner or someone from some other M.A.?
You might be surprised but some peoples Aikido does work on others even if none of the Uke practiced Aikido before. I tried that several times and actually found out the locks often work much earlier then I am used to (my fellow Aikido practitioners relax while the others tensed ...)

Amir
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:03 AM   #32
stelios
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Re: Is this guy for real?

True.
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Old 02-26-2007, 02:57 PM   #33
Angela Morton
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Re: Is this guy for real?

Quote:
Stelios Papados wrote: View Post
Agree, BUT Aikido (at least as O Sensei wanted it to be) means that no matter how brutal an attack you have to able to defend without doing any harm to your uke. And I believe that, yes, you should care if he lands flat on his face because that will mean that your aikido does not work! Otherwise there is no difference from the next martial art. What do you think?
I think there are many ways of interpretting what thers teach, even what O sensei teaches. Aikido is still a martial art, and i think O'senei would respect the difference between performing good aikido and having your oponent land flat on his face, and killing him or breaking his arm. O'sensei came for a culture where martial arts were deadly, that is true injury. A scraped nose because you're a thug who attacked the wrong person is karma. The very fact you said aikido should defend proves that it can be used without another aikidoka. You do not defend against other aikidoka in your dojo as there is no true intent behind their attack, so to defend it must be against a non aikidoka. I could say the bruses i get on my arms from yonkyo are injuries, but yonkyo tends to leave a bruise, that doesn't mean O'sensei didn't me us to practise is. In iaikido you're taught to get out of the way first, if you cant, get rid of your oppenent (throw him for example) and run. That is actually a very peaceful thing to do, and in other martial arts the aim to give your openent no chance to get up. In aikido you bring conflict to an end and get yourself into a safe place. I doubt O'sensei would approve of you not doing aikido when attacked in case your opponent can't fall properly, getting yourself stabbed because of that would appear rather silly in my opinion. Anyway, one description of aikido is about opponents being like water breaking on you. The water 'breaks'.

I really think O'sensei was more concerned with killing and injuring beyond need, self gratification through violence, rather than an attacker getting some bumps and bruises because they can't fall. People get hurt in fights, yet if aikido couldn't be used in a fight it wouldn't be a martial art, and that's exactly what it is. That is my opinion, and ithout having O'sensei here to ask it'll be quite hard to actually prove what all of his thoughts were one way or another.
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:10 PM   #34
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Is this guy for real?

I think O'sensei understood about walking the narrow edge of the blade between violence and non-violence. non-violence does not mean no violence.

The Dali Lama even admits in retrospect that if he would have had knowledge of the pain, suffering, and death that would have been caused by his actions and leadership in response to the Chinese occupation, that he would today advocate taking up arms and fighting the chinese.

I think what is important is the gap that exist between stimulus and response...which is choice. What widens that gap is skill. the more skill we have in theory the more choice we have to make informed and appropriate decisions.

It is easy to say that the appropriate choice is to choose to protect your opponent and to avoid using violent action to resolve conflict, however that is not always possible.

Gaining awareness of our abilities and improving our skillfullness in this area is what it is all about. Certainly a noble pursuit to try and resolve with no violence...however, we must recognize the difference between philosophy and reality...AND be able to use what skills we have to the best of our ability.

That is aikido to me.

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Old 02-27-2007, 07:07 AM   #35
Angela Morton
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Re: Is this guy for real?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
I think O'sensei understood about walking the narrow edge of the blade between violence and non-violence. non-violence does not mean no violence.

The Dali Lama even admits in retrospect that if he would have had knowledge of the pain, suffering, and death that would have been caused by his actions and leadership in response to the Chinese occupation, that he would today advocate taking up arms and fighting the chinese.

I think what is important is the gap that exist between stimulus and response...which is choice. What widens that gap is skill. the more skill we have in theory the more choice we have to make informed and appropriate decisions.

It is easy to say that the appropriate choice is to choose to protect your opponent and to avoid using violent action to resolve conflict, however that is not always possible.

Gaining awareness of our abilities and improving our skillfullness in this area is what it is all about. Certainly a noble pursuit to try and resolve with no violence...however, we must recognize the difference between philosophy and reality...AND be able to use what skills we have to the best of our ability.

That is aikido to me.
very well said.

Still think that the attacker brings the violence, and him landing flat on his face ends it and returns peace. Even if his does have a few bumps.

I'll have to remember what you said, i like it.
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Old 03-04-2007, 07:38 PM   #36
Roman Kremianski
Dojo: Toronto Aikikai
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Re: Is this guy for real?

There's a wicked sweet video on YouTube of this guy throwing a bunch of UFC guys around with his ki in the locker rooms. Unfortunately, it's in the subscriber's area of YouTube, which you can gain access to after sending me $50 via paypal...
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Old 03-05-2007, 08:40 PM   #37
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Is this guy for real?

When you see something like this, you are not seeing great technique but rather great personal power. Not everyone has the ability to get other wise normal human beings to suspend their common sense. This is "cult" level stuff.

What is interesting is that it can get to the point at which the guy doing the stuff actually believes that he can do it.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
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Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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Old 03-05-2007, 09:18 PM   #38
Mike Sigman
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Re: Is this guy for real?

Quote:
Sean Orchard wrote: View Post
Funny you should say that. Here's a clip of a 'no touch' punch being performed for a TV show - but the guy performing it has no martial arts training whatsoever and freely admits (after the event) that he's a complete fraud. He's a (very impressive) stage hypnotist and magician, and his uke definitely seems to buy it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQdJf-rTVFo
(you could skip to 1:30, there's a bit of a preamble)
And of course, that video clip is one of Derren Brown's. Derren bills himself as a "psychological illusionist" and I've been following his stuff for a few years. He just put out a book called "Tricks of the Mind" which is an excellent, excellent book, IMO. It details some basics of mental tricks, memory, belief structure that causes us to do things, and so forth. In doing so, he touches on an interesting aspect of what cult-like behavior is (what George was just mentioning) and it's very enlightening to read his perspectives. I liked the book so much that I went back and bought a few extra copies to give as gifts... I have done that very few times in my life.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
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Old 03-05-2007, 09:25 PM   #39
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Is this guy for real?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i096Zq2RQT8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3psYEPYaBo

Last edited by gdandscompserv : 03-05-2007 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 03-05-2007, 09:31 PM   #40
gdandscompserv
 
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Re: Is this guy for real?

and one more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dZ6yLod5Eg
amazing stuff.
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Old 03-26-2007, 08:09 AM   #41
kifed_rebel
 
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Re: Is this guy for real?

Sonic boom!

I personally believe demonstrations like this are a dangerous and unneccessary part of the ki-community. As crazy as it sounds, a lot of people and prospective students may actually believe what is going on here is an integral part of the Aikido and other martial art syllabus; and that it is actually possible to project ki in this fashion. George Dillman springs to mind with his Dim Mak and "ki-ball" techniques; and his students appear to be completely brainwashed into his field of bullshido.
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Old 03-26-2007, 08:45 AM   #42
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
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Re: Is this guy for real?

When I was young, I use to help my step-mother train our dog (doberman pincher) for obedience competitions. Our dog was a national champ and I could get the dog to do all kinds of fun stuff with hand signals. The only thing that I want to know was whether this "Ki Master" shaped the behavior of his uke with doggy treats as well.

Ruff Ruff!

marc abrams

ps.- I am also a licensed psychologist. The power of belief is great, but I doubt that a person who wants to mug this guy would put much thought into the guy's foolish actions moments before being physically assaulted!
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Old 03-26-2007, 08:54 AM   #43
Mike Galante
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Cool Re: Is this guy for real?

Quote:
Jason Costello wrote: View Post
Sonic boom!

I personally believe demonstrations like this are a dangerous and unneccessary part of the ki-community. As crazy as it sounds, a lot of people and prospective students may actually believe what is going on here is an integral part of the Aikido and other martial art syllabus; and that it is actually possible to project ki in this fashion. George Dillman springs to mind with his Dim Mak and "ki-ball" techniques; and his students appear to be completely brainwashed into his field of bullshido.
Well put, Jason. You know this kind of "Bullshido" is being permeated throughout other fields of endeavor as well. It is especially prevalent in the natural medical field of which I am a part.
All kinds of ki healing techniques are "taught" to paying customers who become "masters" and other rank in the various "disciplines".
Homeopathy is another field as well becoming polluted by an over abundance of imagination.
No touch throws can be real, but not in these insane videos.
I think it is all a result of the waning influence of traditional values.
Religion, spirituality, work ethic, etc.
These people are not willing to put in the lifetime of dedication in a serious way, like it took Usheiba to develop our respected MA.
But if these people are not challenged and exposed for the charlatans they are, like Jason has said, some people will say that tai chi or aikido is all bullshido.
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:16 AM   #44
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is this guy for real?

Sadly yes...... so very very sad..... its bringing tears to my eyes..... I just don't know whether to laugh or cry..... or should I retire back to my cave?...... where I can ponder..... how soooo! many people just want to fall for this kind of crap! This is the kind of stuff that also happens in aikido and people wonder why it gets trashed so much?? hardly surprising is it!
Tony
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:38 PM   #45
kironin
 
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Re: Is this guy for real?

All this stuff is just a sweet paying gig for the alpha males without a conscience preying on the betas' need for his approval.

Group think and belief is powerful stuff. The alpha male may even have convinced himself.

Well directed belief allows you to do accomplish amazing things. Our minds are wonderful machines of immense complexity.

Unfortunately some have no problem harnessing it to get others to do amazingly stupid things.

Jonestown was an extreme example.

Unfortunately the mass media conglomerates of nation states understand this all too well.

Last edited by kironin : 04-03-2007 at 12:40 PM.

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Old 04-03-2007, 01:08 PM   #46
garry cantrell
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Re: Is this guy for real?

Benny Hinn is a televangelist who holds enormous worship services in arenas and the like. A primary draw for him is a portion of his service where he "heals" those afflicted with various maladies. Sometimes he bops them on the forehead with an open palm, sometimes he waves his hands at them, sometimes its a whole bunch of folks all at once, sometimes they're all the way across the arena. They all fall down when he does his hand waving bit. They all report positive experiences from same. Exposes by various agencies question the authenticity, or permanence, of his healing. Lots of folks are true believers and followers of Mr. Hinn and, while I could be labeled as a nonbeliever in such things (others might think "heretic" is more correct) - I'm not about to insult those who find benefit from his services.

OK, so what's my point? The guy in the video reminds me of Benny Hinn. I doubt the uke who gets knocked over from across the mat had the intent to deceive. I think he's caught up in the same sort of whatever it is that the folks who attend Benny Hinn events get caught up in.

Whadduya think?
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