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Old 02-18-2007, 04:50 PM   #1
shidoin
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Real life Aikido

Hi All I would like to hear stories of others having to use aikido in a real life situation. This may have been asked before, but with new members being added all the time it would be great for others to share their experiences. OSU!
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Old 02-18-2007, 06:29 PM   #2
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Real life Aikido

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11324

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Old 02-18-2007, 06:33 PM   #3
shidoin
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Re: Real life Aikido

Thanks Kevin, But that's not what I was looking for, I wanted real stories! Not how Aikido helps one in his/her daily life
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Old 02-18-2007, 06:59 PM   #4
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Real life Aikido

no problem, good luck.

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Old 02-18-2007, 07:08 PM   #5
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Re: Real life Aikido

spiritually like or physically?

If you're hungry, keep moving.
If you're tired, keep moving.
If you value you're life, keep moving.

You don't own what you can't defend
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Old 02-18-2007, 07:26 PM   #6
Jim Sorrentino
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Re: Real life Aikido

Hello Matt,
Quote:
Matt Sloan wrote:
Hi All I would like to hear stories of others having to use aikido in a real life situation. This may have been asked before, but with new members being added all the time it would be great for others to share their experiences. OSU!
Please understand that nobody of character is going to discuss, in an open forum, how he or she managed to survive a potentially lethal encounter by using his or her martial arts skills. It's just not done. Years ago, I asked a friend (former Special Forces, several tours in Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia) about some of his combat experiences --- and how he felt, physically and emotionally, during those experiences. He told me, and then said, "But we're really not supposed to talk about that."

I suggest that you get to know some people in real life, cultivate their friendship, and you may find out what you want to know. And if you can find it (it's out of print), read, "Her Wits About Her". The narrators are not budoka, but they are all veterans.

Jim Sorrentino
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Old 02-18-2007, 07:38 PM   #7
shidoin
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Re: Real life Aikido

Grant, either one spiritually or physically! and to
Jim, not horror stories, I don't think anyone really wants to hear that! maybe a storie like one you might find on the news or in the paper. Like jim saves woman from being raped by using his Martial arts training. Just some interesting reading and stories people may like to share. I don't think you can compare a vet or war to what I asked. But thank you very much for your input.

Matt
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Old 02-19-2007, 02:30 AM   #8
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Re: Real life Aikido

violence is violence and perception of it is what matters. I am sure someone will post some things for you here eventually, but do look through some of the related threads for discussion while you wait. There are lots of gems out there to be garnered in discussions that have happened over the years.

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Old 02-19-2007, 09:26 AM   #9
shidoin
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Re: Real life Aikido

Thanks Kevin! I'll Check it out. I'm new to this site so I hope I don't make people mad by asking questions that may have been posted before. I'm here to make friends and share stories, training info, ect.
But since I have no stories, and I do not fight, hearing some interest me. Aikido has taught me not to fight, but sometimes a situation can't be avoided. Looking for those situations where Aikido worked out.
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Old 02-19-2007, 09:48 AM   #10
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Real life Aikido

No problem, ask away! you are not making anyone mad. Most you will find here have had the same questions that you have, and we have discussed this quite a bit in the past.

You will find two polarities here, one of an external nature, that is applying direct techniques of aikido, two, internal applying the principles of aikido.

One philosophy is that aikido is a methodology, not a style of fighitng, in fact, you don't fight with any style, but use yourself and how you conditioned yourself to respond.

Many here will tell you that they have avoided more fights and de-escalated conflict because of their training than they have actually used it.

There are many police officers here that will tell you that the training has helped them respond more appropriately or with greater skill in their jobs.

aikido has greatly enhanced my abilities to both teach soldiers combatives, in real life as a part of my job as a infantryman, and in competition as a Grappler/BJJ guy.

Also, you will find that many of us cautiously repsond to such post as well, when we see someone join up to aikiweb and immediately start posting things such as "aikido in a real life", or "aikido doesn't work", ..etc. as we have all seen guys come and go from here with the same questions.

As Jimmy States, those that have had to use force many times are reluctant to discuss such things in this community for a myriad of reasons.

You will find that there are many of us, myself included that are trying to figure out how to apply the principles of aikido in our daily lives and in situations that cannot be avoided.

I run a Modern Army Combatvies program over here in Germany that trains up soldiers prior to going downrange. I have spent the last few years experimenting, learning, studying, getting hit, kicked, shocked, shot at by, and choked out...all in the name of trying to learn and to teach.

It has been a huge eyeopener for me and my aikido training. I will tell you that the principles of aikido are what is very important, that is what I have learned.

Look forward to conversing with you on here!

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Old 02-19-2007, 10:12 AM   #11
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Re: Real life Aikido

Back thirty plus years ago, I was training at both the NY Aikikai and the Bond Street Dojo. There was a young woman there, who was just beautiful, with eyes of cornflower blue. She was dating this squat little guy, who looked like a dwarf covered in glue and dipped in steel wool. I wanted to go out with her so much. But I only saw her at the NY Aikikai, where she and troll went to practice. So one day, I "happened" to be walking with the two of them on the way from practice, and I was telling her about the very very cool stuff being practiced at Bond Street, never done at the NY Aikikai, that "Aikido is love, baby and (my) love is a powerful thing," (I'm cool - this was implicit - but imagine Barry White playing very very softly in the background as we walked down that summer Greenwich Village Street) hoping she'd see fit to drop by for a visit - and somehow, I hadn't figured this part out - she'd leave troll behind. So I'm in the middle of my rap, my eyes lost in her blue, and suddenly, a large drunken guy lurched out of a doorway, UGHHHHHHAHH, reached out for us, and without breaking stride or sentence, I did one of those kokyunage, with one hand on top of a forearm, and one underneath, and he sort of flew out of our way, landed on his feet, and stood there gaping. She looked at me in awe, troll-guy said, "Wow, how did you do that?" And I shrugged and said, "That's the way we practice at Bond Street."
<Sigh> She never did show up.

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Old 02-19-2007, 06:12 PM   #12
shidoin
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Re: Real life Aikido

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
Back thirty plus years ago, I was training at both the NY Aikikai and the Bond Street Dojo. There was a young woman there, who was just beautiful, with eyes of cornflower blue. She was dating this squat little guy, who looked like a dwarf covered in glue and dipped in steel wool. I wanted to go out with her so much. But I only saw her at the NY Aikikai, where she and troll went to practice. So one day, I "happened" to be walking with the two of them on the way from practice, and I was telling her about the very very cool stuff being practiced at Bond Street, never done at the NY Aikikai, that "Aikido is love, baby and (my) love is a powerful thing," (I'm cool - this was implicit - but imagine Barry White playing very very softly in the background as we walked down that summer Greenwich Village Street) hoping she'd see fit to drop by for a visit - and somehow, I hadn't figured this part out - she'd leave troll behind. So I'm in the middle of my rap, my eyes lost in her blue, and suddenly, a large drunken guy lurched out of a doorway, UGHHHHHHAHH, reached out for us, and without breaking stride or sentence, I did one of those kokyunage, with one hand on top of a forearm, and one underneath, and he sort of flew out of our way, landed on his feet, and stood there gaping. She looked at me in awe, troll-guy said, "Wow, how did you do that?" And I shrugged and said, "That's the way we practice at Bond Street."
<Sigh> She never did show up.
Oh Ha Ha That was so funny About the troll dipped in glue. That was a great story, Thanks.
Thatt
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:15 AM   #13
Edward
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Re: Real life Aikido

Ellis,

I'm sure you would have had more chances with that cornflower blue eyed girl if you had used a different approach with that drunken guy, maybe even letting him beat you. I think most girls prefer "softer" men, at least here in Asia. I could never date any girls from the Aikido clubs I have trained at because they mostly thought I was too "scary" from the way I threw the guys at the training, even though I am very delicate with the girls

Cheers,
Edward
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:40 AM   #14
Ellis Amdur
 
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Re: Real life Aikido

Edward - Thanks for the advice. Thankfully, though, I am now with someone who is simply delighted when I smite the evil doers, leaving their fields barren and their watch towers desolate..

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Old 02-20-2007, 07:21 AM   #15
Keith Gotschall
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Re: Real life Aikido

Dating advice on Aikiweb.... I love it

Great story Ellis, I think I have met the glue dipped piece of steel wool. He is alive and well living in the hills of Colorado,( and Alaska, and Georgia, and North Carolina, and Wyoming, and.....) (quick aside: there is, or was as of a couple years ago, a guy living in Ward Colorado who was some kind of whack-job... wore a kilt and a broadsword and lived in a hole he dug that was covered by a sheet of plywood. Not a very friendly chap either)

That was just the kind of story I personally was hoping for off this thread. So, I guess I should share one.

Not to get too personal, but I was recently in the surgery for the doctors to carve out a small chunk of my upper leg. Just a skin thing.

As the doc was coming in toward my exposed crotch with a large needle of lydecaine, abject fear took over and my left arm shot out, blending with and blocking his advance. It was the most effective move I have ever done in my life, and was completely unthought. In one quick move I had softly come up under his wrist, (the one with the steel dart meant for me!) and moved him up and away. There was no excessive force, no grabbing, but there was also no going forward for him. Good old unbendable arm! The doctor and I both looked at each other in amazement. We calmly talked a little more about what the procedure was going to be.... and then he came in again. It was all I could do not leap from the table, shiho nage the crap out of him (taking the syringe as he went down, whilst applying nikkyo at the same time) and destroying the surgery room as I lept out the window to safety.

Instead I started talking, fast and inanely. I must have told them my whole life story in the 10-15 minutes it took to complete the procedure. In the end it as no big whoop, but it was nice to know that when the chips were down and it was time to act quickly I did. I am not sure it was aikido exactly by definition, but the blending was harmonious and I didn't hurt the doc. Which is probably good. Keith
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:45 PM   #16
keonimay
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Re: Real life Aikido

For some time, I have been reading various posts, and have come to the conclusion, that most writers have never really fought in their whole life.

When boxers spar, they do not always try to win. During sparring session, boxers experiment with different ways of executing their 4 basic punches (jabs, crosses, uppercuts, and hooks). They test different punching angles and body position angles. They also practice making their sparring partner lose his balance.

Aikido, as it is practiced these days, does not really allow the same type of sparring. Boxers sparring with each other require a certain level of trust and cooperation. This is similar to the concept of harmony and blending in Aikido.

A boxer is happy, when his opponent throws his punch, misses, and goes flying into the canvas. Aikido principles are involved with this category of technique.

The difference between the boxing method and the Aikido method of learning is that there is pain involved when you box and no real pain involved in Aikido. It is comparative.

There is value in Aikido, when you defend against real street offensive techniques, and practice at real time speed.
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Old 02-22-2007, 05:47 PM   #17
keonimay
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Re: Real life Aikido

[quote=Keoni May;169552]For some time, I have been reading various posts, and have come to the conclusion, that most writers have never really fought in their whole life.

When boxers spar, they do not always try to win. During sparring session, boxers experiment with different ways of executing their 4 basic punches (jabs, crosses, uppercuts, and hooks). They test different punching angles and body position angles. They also practice making their sparring partner lose his balance.

Aikido, as it is practiced these days, does not really allow the same type of sparring. Boxers sparring with each other require a certain level of trust and cooperation. This is similar to the concept of harmony and blending in Aikido.

A boxer is happy, when his opponent throws his punch, misses, and goes flying into the canvas. Aikido principles are involved with this category of technique.

The difference between the boxing method and the Aikido method of learning is that there is pain involved when you box and no real pain involved in Aikido. It is comparative.

There is value in Aikido, when you defend against real street offensive techniques, and practice at real time speed. It is a question of practicing with someone outside Aikido.
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Old 02-24-2007, 03:16 PM   #18
Angela Morton
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Re: Real life Aikido

Quote:
Keoni May wrote: View Post
The difference between the boxing method and the Aikido method of learning is that there is pain involved when you box and no real pain involved in Aikido.
Have you ever been a low grade poorly coordinated uke? Ow, pain!
i don't know which is worse, the brown belts who know they can bend your arm a bit further without it actually snapping, or the ungraded students who don't realise tapping means stop. Still...pain.
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Old 02-25-2007, 03:45 PM   #19
keonimay
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Re: Real life Aikido

I was once a croos-over professional fighter in the late 1960s to early 1970s. Though I was in great shape for my fights, normal people would not have been able to withstand the force and damage, that we inflicted upon each other. I would classify this as real fighting. Training for a fight, is a completely different matter.

I am also a graduate of a broken wrist, broken elbow, torn rotor, damaged kneecap, while training with others who thought that dojo training prepares them for the street.

The difference being, I have fought in a war for 2 years, survived a prison war, survived a few massive street riots, survived in the ring, and survived dojo warriors who thought they were good for all of the above, without surviving all of the above.

In my lifetime, the ones who hurt me in a dojo environment, were either serious hurt or killed over time. Their techniques did not work for them when it should have because they were always learning to beat a person in a dojo instead of learning the mastery of their techniques.
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Old 02-25-2007, 04:19 PM   #20
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Real life Aikido

Pain and experience is realitive to the person experiencing it. Just because one person has a higher mental toughness and capacity for accepting, ignoring, or dealing with pain and the like, does not invalidate the pain of the person that reacts the same way in a situation of much less pain.

Perception of pain is what is important. Through training and conditioning, we can learn how to better cope with our pain and understand it, what causes it, and how to react to it.

The normal house wife that experiences pain from the loss of a husband is very real. The emotional trauma of a 5 year old that watches his dog get run over by a speeding car is as real as that of a soldier in combat.

What I think is important that we recognize their pain, and help them as human beings to conquer it and alleviate their suffering where possible.

Arts like aikido can be very empowering for many. It can help them in many ways to feel as a whole, strong person.

Real aikido can be just as much about learning how to martially deal with that pain, than from the pain from physical violence.

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Old 02-25-2007, 11:03 PM   #21
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Re: Real life Aikido

Quote:
Jim Sorrentino wrote: View Post
Hello Matt,Please understand that nobody of character is going to discuss, in an open forum, how he or she managed to survive a potentially lethal encounter by using his or her martial arts skills.
I had to read this one a few times.

I think a key point here is the lethality of the encounter. I know many people of character who would willingly discuss a successful martial encounter, even some that might have been considered "potentially lethal".

But, in my mind at least, there is a huge difference between a drunk with a knife and a trained killer in hand-to-hand combat. The former seems like fair game (if you can back it up and it isn't just about bragging). The latter, I think regardless of the person's character there is an emotional component that no sane person wants to revisit.

The bragging point is salient as well. It's one thing, I think, to say, "Yes, I've used my Aikido to defend myself." and another to give a blow-by-blow of how you took some poor guy apart because he had the temerity to attack you. It's a continuum, though, it's not black and white.

At one end of the scale I think we have to be honest and, yeah, stick up for our art when we have empirical evidence it works. At the other end it's just, well, tacky. Crass.

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Old 02-26-2007, 02:52 PM   #22
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Re: Real life Aikido

Just about everyone I work with at in my shop is an experienced combat veteran as we work at one of the Army's premier combat training centers and these guys are the subject matter expert on combat because they have been there and done that over the last 5 years.

These guys are not remarkable to look at, or would you ever guess that they have done some of the things that they have done in the line of duty.

Having worked with them over the past year...we never talk about their experiences...for one reason, we are all in the same profession so it is just something that is part of what we do.

However, eventually they will talk, usually spontaneously, and when a certain amount of trust is developed in the relationship.

All cases they felt their actions were warranted and were in the line of duty and would do it again if they had to.

All of them, everyone of them, you could tell their was pain and emotion involved.

All of them were felt guilt. Not so much for the actions they took that resulted in death and destruction, but that they could have done it differently, or taken other action.

It was a humbling and stressful experience for them. How do you begin to talk about it in a casual conversation or how do you begin to ask about it? I never do, it only comes up when we are discussing another issue that lends to this being relevant to the conversation. Even then it is a quick conversation and then the subject is changed in the course to something like...how bout those Knicks...and we move on.

I don't think it is normal even if you can ultimately justify your actions.

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Old 02-26-2007, 03:40 PM   #23
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Re: Real life Aikido

Thanks, Kevin, for that perspective. I think it addresses better than I could have the "lethal encounter" issue.

Most of the people I know who've actually used Aikido to defend themselves and are willing to discuss it, the conflicts were the "drunk-in-the-bar" level of thing. That seems to me like it would be just far less emotional and stressful (especially if nobody actually got hurt) than a combat situation.

Even then, though, I hear a lot more from the people who witness the encounter than from the people involved in it.

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Old 02-26-2007, 03:50 PM   #24
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Re: Real life Aikido

Yes I agree, it reminds me that I did actually have an encounter with a drunk about 7 years ago in a bar.

Actually the bouncer was pushing this guy out and he was really a harmless, idiot drunk....but the bouncer I could tell was purposely antagonising this guy, and pushed him and the guy turned and then the bouncer squared up with him.

I said, hey look this bouncer WANTS this guy to swing at him! He was waiting for it so he could deck him.

I walked up to the guy, who didn't want to leave, but my arm around him, locked up his arm in a come along hold, put him on his tip toes and walked him out of the bar to the street.

Only to have a police officer run flat out and clothesline the guy flat on the ground.

I yelled at the officer about it being uncalled for, then realized I was a GI at Fort Benning GA at a bar and I was going to be next as guilt by association and walked on my way.

Oh well.

I think the aikido thing came in the intent of my actions, not necessarily the force or the technique I used as it was nothing special. Hence, to me it is about the philosophy behind it that makes it aikido, not what was done.

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Old 02-28-2007, 02:09 PM   #25
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Re: Real life Aikido

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
I walked up to the guy, who didn't want to leave, but my arm around him, locked up his arm in a come along hold, put him on his tip toes and walked him out of the bar to the street.

Only to have a police officer run flat out and clothesline the guy flat on the ground.
haha your love of humanity got cancelled out.
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