Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > AikiWeb System

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-12-2007, 07:57 PM   #26
raul rodrigo
Location: Quezon City
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
Philippines
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

As I said, I wasnt doubting George Ledyard. After I posted, I realized that the way I phrased that question could be misinterpreted and added another post to clarify. A declarative statement can have varying levels of certainty, ranging from a probably true hypothesis to stone cold, dead to rights certain. We already know that some US aikido federations frown on their students attending seminars by other federations (ASU on the other hand is pretty open). So a similar federation allergy to the Aiki Expo would be par for the course. But the way these things work is that a federation would rarely issue such an instruction openly and explicitly. So the aikidoka outside such a federation would have some difficulty knowing about such an instruction with certainty.

Last edited by raul rodrigo : 01-12-2007 at 07:59 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2007, 02:19 AM   #27
George S. Ledyard
 
George S. Ledyard's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,641
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote:
SENSEI:

You know this for a fact? That some US shihan held their people back?



best,


RAUL
Yes, I do know that. Not only did some "major" teachers refuse invitations to attend but they made it clear that their students weren't to participate.

There was quite a hub bub for a time when the first Expo was being put together about why certain teachers weren't invited and certain organizations weren't represented... Stan made it quite apparent that they had been invited and that teachers from these orgaizations had indeed been invited but had chosen to stay away.

The one that REALLY got me though, was the teacher who accepted the invitation to teach and demo and told his students not to train in anyone else's classes. I have ZERO, ZIP, NADA, NO respect for that person.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2007, 02:31 AM   #28
George S. Ledyard
 
George S. Ledyard's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,641
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote:
As I said, I wasnt doubting George Ledyard. After I posted, I realized that the way I phrased that question could be misinterpreted and added another post to clarify. A declarative statement can have varying levels of certainty, ranging from a probably true hypothesis to stone cold, dead to rights certain. We already know that some US aikido federations frown on their students attending seminars by other federations (ASU on the other hand is pretty open). So a similar federation allergy to the Aiki Expo would be par for the course. But the way these things work is that a federation would rarely issue such an instruction openly and explicitly. So the aikidoka outside such a federation would have some difficulty knowing about such an instruction with certainty.
These things only rarely get stated out loud. Occasionally it is made overt. The students of a given teacher, especially the seniors, know what is expected of them and don't need it spelled out. It's an attitude.

It doesn't always work though. Any number of times I have encountered students from another organization at DC events with Saotome Sensei which they secretly attended. This has been going on for years as students get fed up with having their exposure to other teachers and other points of view restricted. I've even had a few sneak off to some of my own events, knowing they'd get in big trouble if their teacher knew.

Anyway, you can check on the list of participants in the three Expos and its pretty obvious who was and was not there.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2007, 04:05 AM   #29
raul rodrigo
Location: Quezon City
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
Philippines
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
Yes, I do know that. Not only did some "major" teachers refuse invitations to attend but they made it clear that their students weren't to participate.

The one that REALLY got me though, was the teacher who accepted the invitation to teach and demo and told his students not to train in anyone else's classes. I have ZERO, ZIP, NADA, NO respect for that person.

Thank you for your reply, sensei. That was what I was looking for.

The teacher who came and taught but told his students to attend none of the others classes sounds like, as you say in the states, a real piece of work.


best,


RAUL
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2007, 05:04 AM   #30
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

My training over the last 3.5 years has been very interesting. I was discouraged at first because I am at a remote army training area in Germany where we are very busy and it is essentially a martial wasteland for good instruction.

On top of that I had nobody to train with, and the guys that I did have to train with were soldiers and aikido was simply not going to be the thing that floated there boat.

Anyway, I did find a way to train. It required me to be very creative and change some of the ways I did things.

I found the Army Combatives Program, embraced it, sought to understand it instead of fighitng it, as it was so different from what I did study.

I hooked up a BJJ purple belt, and a black belt from Brazil trying to get a school started.

I ran my own program and got a group of guys together on a fairly reqular basis. Some mornings I show up and there is no one there...very lonely and discouraging. That might happen for weeks on end....but I keep showing up. Seems like everytime I get ready to quit, something wonderful happens and we have guys come.

I do travel some what. I usually go out on the internet and find who is in the area that I am going to, and email them and ask to train with them. This has been wonderful! I have met many, many wonderful people doing this!

Yet, I still have yet to train with my friend Chuck Gordon who is an hour up the road from me!

With the Brazilian Black Belt, we basically have to support him like a patron. That is, we fly him over here, we find him a place to stay with some of the students, he stays for a few months, we collect up donations etc, and support him so we can train.

This fall did not go so well, he was flying back to Germany throught the U.S. and got detained for three weeks by immigration because of a computer disconnect on visas. So, he exhausted all the money we gave him, and had to go back to Brazil until this summer.

Anyway, it has been challenging to continue my training over the last 3.5 years. The majority of it, looking at the same smelly training partner that knows you like himself, hating each other because you are just damn tired of rolling and training with that one person!

having to wake up each morning, think about what you are going to work on. Going home at night, surfing the net and Youtube for new ideas and thoughts, of how to do this.

Wondering about if you are improving or are you developing affects because you are training with the same people with little or now feedback from a more experience person.

Feeling like Bill Murray in the movie Stripes...completing training on your own.

You know though, I think I have grown in many ways though. I think there is something to be said for training on your own, and seeking out instruction.

I am looking forward to returning to the states this summer where I will have a steady and consistent dojo filled with lots of people. One where I can show up, not really have to worry about what we are going to do that night. Having an instructor that can guide and assist you in your development, to tell you how you are doing.

That said, I would not trade the last 3.5 years. That and I am definitely taking a different approach to training when I return. One that will consist of me practicing in my "home" (hombo) dojo, but with my perspective focused on a much larger community of practice that consist of several dojos and people that I would have never considered from a traditonal standpoint!

Thanks all for the wonderful thread, and allowing me a place to share my thoughts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2007, 08:28 AM   #31
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,004
Japan
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote:
The teacher who came and taught but told his students to attend none of the others classes sounds like, as you say in the states, a real piece of work.
RAUL
Raul,

Please do not be too hasty to condemn that teacher. I am in the position of seeing both sides and knowing some of the history involved. I think it is better to applaud Stanley Pranin's initiative in hosting the Expos, rather than condemn those who could not quite match up to the vision that Stanley had in mind.

I think it is an excellent vision, but it had an omote and an ura aspect. The omote aspect was this wonderful exposition of different styles of aikido, nourished by input from other arts. The ura aspect was the fact that different 'styles' would be appearing side-by-side, as if they had equal 'value' and I think this is what upset the Aikikai.

I myself was attacked by certain shihans for agreeing to come to Aiki Expo 2002. So I asked Doshu. His response was that I was the elected chairman of an international aikido organization, so he had no grounds for giving me any direction as to what I should or should not do.

Best wishes,

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2007, 12:29 PM   #32
George S. Ledyard
 
George S. Ledyard's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,641
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
Raul,

Please do not be too hasty to condemn that teacher. I am in the position of seeing both sides and knowing some of the history involved. I think it is better to applaud Stanley Pranin's initiative in hosting the Expos, rather than condemn those who could not quite match up to the vision that Stanley had in mind.

I think it is an excellent vision, but it had an omote and an ura aspect. The omote aspect was this wonderful exposition of different styles of aikido, nourished by input from other arts. The ura aspect was the fact that different 'styles' would be appearing side-by-side, as if they had equal 'value' and I think this is what upset the Aikikai.

I myself was attacked by certain shihans for agreeing to come to Aiki Expo 2002. So I asked Doshu. His response was that I was the elected chairman of an international aikido organization, so he had no grounds for giving me any direction as to what I should or should not do.

Best wishes,
Hi Peter,
It's one thing to understand what the cultural issues are that cause folks to make the decisions they do. It's quite another to buy into them and perpetuate them. You chose to attend the Expo, took the criticism for doing so, and then benefited (I hope) from the web of contacts, some of whom, I am sure, have become friends.

One of the best things about the 2002 Expo was that you were there. I remember joining you for breakfast and talking for hours. Your instruction was wonderful as well. Why should we, as non-Japanese practitioners of this art, feel like we need to buy into every aspect of the culture that created our teachers? Frankly, the Japanese are amazing in many ways but almost dysfunctional in others. Aikido has an opportunity to become greater by shedding its unnecessary cultural baggage.

Aikido is international now. Despite the belief at the Honbu dojo that the art still eminates outwards from "the Source" in Tokyo, Aikido is quite capable at this point of surviving quite nicely without them. If the administrators at the home dojo got out more they'd understand this.

The consequence of this very parochial view of things is that folks get pushed away from its roots. The desire to maintain control actually accomplishes the opposite. This is too bad because there are aspects of this art which are quite uniquely Japanese and it helpful to have exposure to the culture in understanding them. Aikido does not benefit from losing touch with the homeland.

But when you look at the Honbu Dojo website and see not one foreigner listed on its list of overseas Shihan, despite the fact that there are a number who have official pieces of paper which say they are Shihan, you see why people, quite rightly, take a hike and and simply choose to ignore the folks in the homeland.

You did what you thought was right for you, despite the crticism. I realize that you are in a sensitive position and must act both for yourself and for the role. The rest of us do not have that particular problem. We are responsible for creating Aikido for the next generation. What we model is what it will become. I have less than no interest in perpetuating the negative aspects of the culture that created Aikido over here.

Bruce Bookman Sensei and I have had dojos in the Seattle area for many, many years now. In fact, when he first returned from Japan, I trained half time at his dojo. Despite the fact that our teachers are not particularly fond of each other, we quite consciously decided that there was no need to carry on conflicts which originated in another time and place, whose origins we didn't even understand. We all need to make that decision.

We need to vote with our feet on these issues. When the relationships with our instructors start to retard our growth in the art, then we need to do what we need to do. This is a martial art, a form of Budo. Yet many senior people base all of their actions around a fear of incurring their teacher's displeasure. We need to do what is best for our training and what is best for the art. If enough folks simply stop buying into this non-sense, the top level teachers will change. The administration on Tokyo will change. It will be in their interest to do so.

I have an immense amount of respect for how you manage yourself in this world. Actually living and teaching in Japan makes it a different issue. One of my favorite internet past times is reading the articles you have written on the subject. You are living in their culture and it is right that you should navigate that world as much as you can according to their values. But over here and around the world, no. We should take a look at what we want aikido to become and act accordingly.

We should not accept anything which limits our own development in the art and we should not accept anything which serves to keep us apart from each other rather than bring us closer together. If our teachers get mad at us for acting as we believe we should in this area, well that's too bad. They will have to live with it.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2007, 08:33 PM   #33
raul rodrigo
Location: Quezon City
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 777
Philippines
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
Raul,

Please do not be too hasty to condemn that teacher. I am in the position of seeing both sides and knowing some of the history involved. I think it is better to applaud Stanley Pranin's initiative in hosting the Expos, rather than condemn those who could not quite match up to the vision that Stanley had in mind.
I will defer to your judgment on this matter, sensei. You know much more than I do. But if I may say so, it strikes me as odd to show up and then still hold back from the very purpose of the event. I can understand people staying away completely, for whatever reasons of personal history or cultural issues. That is their privilege. But to go to an Expo, but not be there wholeheartedly seems to me to be a bit strange. And then again, there may be a lot I don't see.

You once wrote about teachers barring their students from training with others; I believe that you wrote something about how you weren't able to train with Nishio shihan due to something of this nature. Do you think that George Ledyard is right and that the Japanese teachers can eventually be forced to "loosen the reins" on their students?

best,


RAUL
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2007, 03:31 AM   #34
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,004
Japan
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote:
I will defer to your judgment on this matter, sensei. You know much more than I do. But if I may say so, it strikes me as odd to show up and then still hold back from the very purpose of the event. I can understand people staying away completely, for whatever reasons of personal history or cultural issues. That is their privilege. But to go to an Expo, but not be there wholeheartedly seems to me to be a bit strange. And then again, there may be a lot I don't see.

You once wrote about teachers barring their students from training with others; I believe that you wrote something about how you weren't able to train with Nishio shihan due to something of this nature. Do you think that George Ledyard is right and that the Japanese teachers can eventually be forced to "loosen the reins" on their students?

best,


RAUL
Raul,

I have increasingly come to see the danger of making unqualified cultural comparisons. Perhaps this is one benefit of living in a culture and not being a native: you can see things that they cannot see.

I would prefer to hear why the instructor was so restrictive before passing judgment. Aiki Expo 2002 was pioneering in many ways and the overall aim was not especially clear from the very beginning, especially to the participants from Japan.

Of course, I can see George's viewpoint and would probably share it if I were in a similar position. But I am not and I think it is not so easy to make a clear distinction between understanding cultural issues an buying into them/perpetuating them.

As for training with Nishio Shihan, I had a make a clear choice and I chose in one particular way. I was not then in the position I am in now. I also think that 'loosening the reins' is difficult for Japanese (and not just in the world of aikido) because of the complex of values implicit in the Japanese view of teaching and learning.

Best wishes,

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2007, 07:38 AM   #35
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,724
United_States
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote:
I myself was attacked by certain shihans for agreeing to come to Aiki Expo 2002.
Osu Sensei,
I was glad you were there and thoroughly enjoyed your class. Thank you for having the courage to attend an teach. I look forward to more.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2007, 09:03 PM   #36
July
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

Sounds like being lost in translation. I also find myself to be lost in Aiki every now and then.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2007, 09:37 AM   #37
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

Excellent post George, Peter and all the others too. Thank you.

Quote:
myself was attacked by certain shihans for agreeing to come to Aiki Expo 2002. So I asked Doshu. His response was that I was the elected chairman of an international aikido organization, so he had no grounds for giving me any direction as to what I should or should not do.
Hi Peter, was that the tatemae or honne response??

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2007, 08:24 PM   #38
Suru
Location: Miami, FL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 453
United_States
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

The legendary golfer Ben Crenshaw has always appeared to me to have an incredible attitude. When I was on my high school golf team, I cut an advertisement featuring him from a magazine. I taped it to my bedroom wall, and it's still there. The ad quotes him:

"There are shortcuts to the clubhouse.
There are shortcuts to the parking lot.
But there are no shortcuts to the pin.
You can't learn half a grip.
You can't master part of a swing.
There are no Cliffs Notes for downhill lies.
There is only work.
Practice. Sweat.
There is only one way.
The long way."

Such an attitude allows us to perceive the "elusive Aiki."

Drew
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 09:22 AM   #39
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

Nice little snippet Lynn. I'm a big believer that a) we deceive ourselves (often to protect our self-image) and don't even know it, b) conceptual thoughts only define aspects of reality (every concept or thought is a model, it is the success of the model which is important rather than any intrinsic 'value' since our definitions can never BE 'real'.)

So I suppose our answer is, train and try out all concepts 'till you find something that works!

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 09:29 AM   #40
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
Hi Peter,
... Frankly, the Japanese are amazing in many ways but almost dysfunctional in others. Aikido has an opportunity to become greater by shedding its unnecessary cultural baggage....
Indeed, a friend told me that Uesiba had said "Aikido is a flower that just happened to bloom in Japan".

Some people love pretending to be samurai, and love the myth and mysticism from a past which never existed (and at worst just served nationalistic needs*). Personally, I find oriental culture interesting, but that has little to do with my aikido! (except for these bloody stupid hakama we have to trip over). IMHO aikido is a living art, not a battle recreation from th 1600's.

(* if you read Ueshibas 1st book (yep, that one with all the line drawings) there is an intersting amount of anti-chinese and nationalistic hype in there. - my theory is that the end of WWII and the atomic bomb changed Ueshiba dramatically, and gave rise to this concept of not 'trying to win', because such an attitude is ultinmately futile)

Last edited by ian : 01-18-2007 at 09:31 AM.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2007, 04:37 PM   #41
Suru
Location: Miami, FL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 453
United_States
Offline
Cool Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

Quote:
Ian Dodkins wrote:
Indeed, a friend told me that Uesiba had said "Aikido is a flower that just happened to bloom in Japan".

Some people love pretending to be samurai, and love the myth and mysticism from a past which never existed (and at worst just served nationalistic needs*).

(* if you read Ueshibas 1st book (yep, that one with all the line drawings) there is an intersting amount of anti-chinese and nationalistic hype in there. - my theory is that the end of WWII and the atomic bomb changed Ueshiba dramatically, and gave rise to this concept of not 'trying to win', because such an attitude is ultinmately futile)
I love the initial quote. The spirit of Aikido is a universal spirit, i.e. the human spirit some have awakened within themselves by facing their fears. To face our fears, we must endure varying periods of time of being afraid...sometimes terrified. This price is too high for some, so they live out their own comfortable, self-absorbed lives in darkness. O'Sensei chose, with his own free will, to seek and share the Light. Buddha and Jesus had similar dedication.

As far as some people pretending to be samurai, fantasies are psychologically healthy as long a person can clearly differentiate imagination from reality. Someone with a severe case of schizophrenia or is under the influence of a powerful hallucinogen such as phencyclidine (PCP), may have extreme difficulty knowing the difference. Aikidoka who have such psychoses and get stuck in a glamourized past, thinking they are ronin or samurai, are in the minority, but I agree that it's a problem.

What's Ueshiba's first book entitled? Where can I get a copy? Ignorant "hype" as you called it makes me think about the first time I read Saotome Shihan's "Aikido and the Harmony of Nature." In one of his drawings, I saw a swastika. At first I thought, what the...? Then I remembered that the Native Americans found meaning in this symbol long before Hitler *distorted* it. When I see something that appears ignorant at first, I often take a second look.

Drew
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2007, 09:39 AM   #42
George S. Ledyard
 
George S. Ledyard's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,641
Offline
Re: Article: The Elusive Aiki by Lynn Seiser

Quote:
Drew Gardner wrote:
Ignorant "hype" as you called it makes me think about the first time I read Saotome Shihan's "Aikido and the Harmony of Nature." In one of his drawings, I saw a swastika. At first I thought, what the...? Then I remembered that the Native Americans found meaning in this symbol long before Hitler *distorted* it. When I see something that appears ignorant at first, I often take a second look.

Drew
Just as an aside, the swastika is one of the oldest religous symbols in the world and is found all over in the New World and the old World. Quite common in Buddhist symbology.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Handmade Aikido Gifts - Handmade functional ceramic art with aikido themes



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Article: Aiki-Write II by Lynn Seiser AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 12-14-2006 05:29 PM
Article: Zanshin by Lynn Seiser AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 4 06-26-2006 08:47 AM
Article: Creating Internal Resources by Lynn Seiser AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 5 05-23-2006 09:39 PM
Article: Aiki Ethics by Lynn Seiser AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 11-18-2005 04:49 PM
Article: The Gift by Lynn Seiser AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 3 12-30-2004 10:58 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:15 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate