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Old 10-28-2006, 05:30 PM   #1
L. Camejo
 
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Talking Gyaku Gamae Ate - Competition style

Taken from youtube vids on the recently held U.S. National Tournament.

Most competition waza tends to get scrappy it's not often one gets off a first-attempt, timed waza like this when dealing with skilled resistance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvfyvQIJiGo

Hope to be in Ohio for the Internationals in 2007.

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 10-28-2006, 06:00 PM   #2
Roman Kremianski
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Re: Gyaku Gamae Ate - Competition style

What's the objective of this?

And where are the pretty hakamas.

Last edited by Roman Kremianski : 10-28-2006 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 10-28-2006, 06:03 PM   #3
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Gyaku Gamae Ate - Competition style

Quote:
Roman Kremianski wrote:
What's the objective of this?
To objectively judge one's understanding of Aikido principles and waza.

http://homepage2.nifty.com/shodokan/en/kyogi9.html

He says it better than I can.

LC

Last edited by L. Camejo : 10-28-2006 at 06:18 PM.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 10-28-2006, 06:18 PM   #4
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Gyaku Gamae Ate - Competition style

Regarding hakama please see the attached - http://aikido.armchairsamurai.com/me...odothug800.jpg

Dozo
LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 10-28-2006, 08:19 PM   #5
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Re: Gyaku Gamae Ate - Competition style

Making shiai look like kakarigeiko. I wish I could do that!

*resolves to train more*
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Old 10-29-2006, 12:33 PM   #6
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Gyaku Gamae Ate - Competition style

Quote:
David Sim wrote:
Making shiai look like kakarigeiko. I wish I could do that!

*resolves to train more*
Yeah I think this is near the goal one strives for - execution of waza in a manner that negates any resistance, making the encounter appear as if there is cooperation instead of resistance between the individuals involved.

The manipulation of ma ai to draw in the attack, timing, entry and tsukuri were pretty well set up and executed. I guess this is part of why Sensei Vargas has been the US randori champ for 6 years. This year however I think he lost to one of his students in the final, which I think shows his capabilities as an instructor as well.

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 10-29-2006, 01:36 PM   #7
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Re: Gyaku Gamae Ate - Competition style

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote:
This year however I think he lost to one of his students in the final, which I think shows his capabilities as an instructor as well.
This is quite the measure of a teacher. He deserves to be congratulated.
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Old 10-30-2006, 02:46 AM   #8
Yann Golanski
 
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Re: Gyaku Gamae Ate - Competition style

Quote:
David Sim wrote:
Making shiai look like kakarigeiko. I wish I could do that! *resolves to train more*
Only one way to do that. Do more randori. An advice I should take up myself.

Anyone from the UK going to Sheflied next Saturday (4 Nov) for the mini shihai?

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Old 10-30-2006, 09:35 AM   #9
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Re: Gyaku Gamae Ate - Competition style

Hi Yann,

I was thinking, is it a matter of merely doing more randori or doing randori with the aim of perfecting timing, ma ai control, tsukuri, entry, kuzushi etc.? Iow working on taking the initiative before or while ma ai is closed (Sen no Sen) instead of merely reacting and trying to work a technique from Go no Sen every time. In the video above the waza was applied on closing so the potential for resistance was minimized. This can also be done using Go no Sen, but the timing and tsukuri must be there to effect kuzushi on contact with Tanto's body. Poor timing and tsukuri leads to a wrestling match.

I'm sure those of us in Shodokan at least have seen video of folks who attempt waza in shiai by avoiding the Tanto, grabbing hold of an arm and working it continuously to get leverage/cause kuzushi without much thought of timing, fitting, tai sabaki etc. What results is what looks like a standing wrestling match and often ends up with folks muscling technique to overcome resistance.

So imho doing more randori will help but only if one disciplines oneself to developing good Sen, Sen no Sen and Go no Sen tsukuri and application of waza which will facilitate the clean execution of technique even if there is resistance.

Gives me some ideas on stuff to work on in tonight's class.

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 10-31-2006, 03:00 AM   #10
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Re: Gyaku Gamae Ate - Competition style

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote:
Hi Yann,

I was thinking, is it a matter of merely doing more randori or doing randori with the aim of perfecting timing, ma ai control, tsukuri, entry, kuzushi etc.? Iow working on taking the initiative before or while ma ai is closed (Sen no Sen) instead of merely reacting and trying to work a technique from Go no Sen every time. In the video above the waza was applied on closing so the potential for resistance was minimized. This can also be done using Go no Sen, but the timing and tsukuri must be there to effect kuzushi on contact with Tanto's body. Poor timing and tsukuri leads to a wrestling match.
Well, we always say that it's better to lose 30-34 than win 1-0! The key is to relax and give tori the best attack you can. The aim of randori (and to some extend shihai) is to perfect your aikido, how are you going to do that if you as uke do not try to perfect tori's? Thus, you must give tori the best commited and tricky attack you can do. As tori, it's your job to make sure that you give uke the best you can.

The only way that I found of doing that is to do randori -- which is hard, frustrating and generally end up with me on the floor unable to breath 'cause I breakfall as a sheet of plywood!

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote:
I'm sure those of us in Shodokan at least have seen video of folks who attempt waza in shiai by avoiding the Tanto, grabbing hold of an arm and working it continuously to get leverage/cause kuzushi without much thought of timing, fitting, tai sabaki etc. What results is what looks like a standing wrestling match and often ends up with folks muscling technique to overcome resistance.
One word: YUCK!!! I hate those.

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote:
So imho doing more randori will help but only if one disciplines oneself to developing good Sen, Sen no Sen and Go no Sen tsukuri and application of waza which will facilitate the clean execution of technique even if there is resistance.

Gives me some ideas on stuff to work on in tonight's class.

LC
Not to be pendentic but that's where the kihon waza comes in. All the exercises are there to train some aspects of the timing.

Now, have you ever played paper-rock-sizors with Aikido techniques. Both tori and uke chose either right, left or neural possture. Whoever can do technique has to do it as fast as he/she can. If there's more than three (then two) seconds, both do ten breakfalls. Utterly horrible but great fun.

/evil

The people who understand, understand prefectly.
yann@york-aikido.org York Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-31-2006, 05:43 AM   #11
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Gyaku Gamae Ate - Competition style

Quote:
Yann Golanski wrote:
Not to be pendentic but that's where the kihon waza comes in. All the exercises are there to train some aspects of the timing.
True. But timing in a full resistance free play context is a world apart from kihon training since split second mistakes or miscalculations can and should be exploited by a good partner and with extreme prejudice.

Kihon training has its place in developing the aspects I spoke of in my last post, but randori/shiai takes this development to an even more precise and refined level imho. So I agree with you that more randori is the way to go, but one needs to know what aspects of one's Aikido one is trying to develop when doing randori and learn from every experience during the bout imho. E.g. as Tanto: being mindful of the striking posture to give no openings, removing any potential to telegraph the strike, leading Toshu where you want him to go to increase the possibility of landing the strike, ma ai manipulation etc. Same goes for Toshu during the bout as well. By doing randori in this manner a 2 minute bout can reveal things about oneself that could take months of normal kihon practice to be detected imho.

Just my 2 cents.
LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 11-01-2006, 04:12 AM   #12
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Re: Gyaku Gamae Ate - Competition style

Larry, we agree fully. Randori is very hard and an awesome teaching method. Hence why I like it so much despite the hours of frustration.

The people who understand, understand prefectly.
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