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Old 10-02-2006, 10:05 PM   #101
dps
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

http://www.dailytexanonline.com/medi...exanonline.com
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Old 10-02-2006, 10:26 PM   #102
dps
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Erik,
Next thing you know they will be calling you Gyro Gearlose.

http://stp.ling.uu.se/~starback/dcml.../pics/gyro.gif

Is that you testing Mike's linear pogo stick theory?
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Old 10-02-2006, 10:26 PM   #103
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
And Mike is just dead wrong on that. You cannot generate the kinetic energy by the human body in linear motion that gyration can produce and manipulate.
Well, I can do it. *Sometimes* I add certain rotational movements, but they are more cam-like than "rotational"; and they simply represent additional aspects to the whole of the power chain. There is a linear aspect to the "ki" that you're missing, I think. It's part of the main reason why so much time is spent on "breathing" exercises. I hope you don't think that Misogi breathing is rotational, too.... I'm getting dizzy generating rotational forces to push down these keyboard letters.

FWIW

Mike Sigman
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Old 10-02-2006, 10:30 PM   #104
Gernot Hassenpflug
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

David, interesting though totally tangential to the discussion. I've learnt to walk quite happily along a line narrower than the width of my foot while rolling my head around the sky in circles quite rapidly. Dancers/gymnasts/figure skaters/etc do the same thing while spinning incredibly quickly, showing that their balance can equally be felt along their centerline. Your example says much about the subjects and their lack of sophistication in the art of balance.
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Old 10-02-2006, 10:36 PM   #105
Mike Sigman
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
"Springs," yes I know. The "springs" in the legs aren't. Muscles only pull in tension, they cannot push in compression. What they pull on is a bone the other side of a joint. They create leverage across the fulcrum of the joint to ROTATE the joint to produce the leverage moment (push) delivered by the limb.

So riddle me this -- rotate or push -- which one is the primary action and which one the secondary??
Riddle me this.... regardless of the simple lever classes, depending on muscle-bone attachments, we could be silly and argue about whether "push" and "pull" have rotational components all day. But why would we take some fairly obvious movement and obscure it from the lay public by splitting hairs over simple "push" and "pull"???? You're the one saying that you're trying to put things into western terms, but if you're going to analyse all pushes and pulls for their rotational components, you and David Skaggs will have to do it alone. Why would anyone else want to join in such a needless exercise?

Besides.... you're still missing the simple point.

Mike
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Old 10-02-2006, 10:48 PM   #106
dps
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Gernot Hassenpflug wrote:
Dancers/gymnasts/figure skaters/etc do the same thing while spinning incredibly quickly, showing that their balance can equally be felt along their centerline. .
Spinning incredibly quick like a gyroscope?

Last edited by dps : 10-02-2006 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 10-02-2006, 11:38 PM   #107
dps
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+style+tai+chi

At 5:04 minutes into the video is a demonstration of push hands.
At 8:55 the characteristics of push hands.

Last edited by dps : 10-02-2006 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 10-03-2006, 07:52 AM   #108
Erick Mead
 
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Riddle me this.... regardless of the simple lever classes, depending on muscle-bone attachments, we could be silly and argue about whether "push" and "pull" have rotational components all day. But why would we take some fairly obvious movement and obscure it from the lay public by splitting hairs over simple "push" and "pull"???? You're the one saying that you're trying to put things into western terms, but if you're going to analyse all pushes and pulls for their rotational components, you and David Skaggs will have to do it alone. Why would anyone else want to join in such a needless exercise?
Because "obvious" perception can cause dangerously illusory disconnects from physical reality. Ask any pilot how to tell which way is up. If you think you know, try deciding in an overbanked (>90 degree) turn on a hazy day. If you judge "up" by what you think you perceive, you will make a lovely scorched hole in a pasture someplace.

A more everyday example is the fact that though for all the world it looks like the pencil turned to rubber when I wiggle it between my fingers, it remains happily rigid.

I come from a background where three axis orientation and control is not the difference between ukemi or kaeshi waza, but life and death. That is my introduction to the true root of budo. Life-death. Altitude control or uncontrolled impact. No middle ground.

I therefore take this aspect of the budo rather seriously, as should any one in an art so firmly found on sword work. One such serious applicaiton of this sensibility is that if my kumitachi partner performs the waza poorly, I very often show him how to take the offered ukemi safely -- and cut him with the very motion of my fall. It aids him in understanding why his "obvious" win -- I fell down -- does not remain so obvious.

Perception can be fooled because our perceptual systems are imperfect (and our conscious and unconscious motivational systems responding to those perceptions are also imperfect). Buddhism calls this general tendency maya. Our perceptions are not wrong, but our assumptions about what they tell us may be.

The same is indisputably true of our sense of balance, in terms of visual, vestibular and kinesthetic cues. This vulnerability is exploited with some degree of subtlety in aikido. I would not have thought the point that "obvious" perceptions of movement and balance and the underlying assumptions that frame responses need to be critically studied would be so controversial in this regard.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 10-03-2006, 08:01 AM   #109
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
There is a linear aspect to the "ki" that you're missing, I think. It's part of the main reason why so much time is spent on "breathing" exercises. I hope you don't think that Misogi breathing is rotational, too.... I'm getting dizzy generating rotational forces to push down these keyboard letters.
Breathing is cyclic.

That is the Taiji.

More seriously - rotation translated linearly is a wave form. Breathing flow follows a temporal sine curve, so yes - it is rotational as far as the math is concerned. Maai matters equally in time as in space, and where in the cycle of the breath performance of technique occurs is critical.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 10-03-2006, 01:14 PM   #110
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Well, I can do it. *Sometimes* I add certain rotational movements, but they are more cam-like than "rotational"; and they simply represent additional aspects to the whole of the power chain.
A point I missed. The major torso joints, shoulder, hip, are universal joints. No cam action of these joints is possible because an out of plane input will alter the plane of movement of the joint without much reaction. Which is sort of my point,

The spine can store energy, but is an exceedingly weak lever - a fact for which countless chiropractors are immensely graterful and their patients proportionally saddened. It is, however, a marvelously stayed segmental column, with lots of little offset cam-like processes, that are "guywired" in opposing sets to the remaining superstructure (chest/ribs armature, shoulder girdle and hip girdle).

The spine is remarakbly poowerful in torque however. It can rotate about its vertical axis nearly 270 degrees. By setting a maximum tension potentional on one side of each tension pair one can release them, allowing the connective sheath loaded in torsional shear to recoil in a spira time series, and then applying the opposite tension in the same timing to add more inertia, this can be done to maximize the harmonic resonance of the spiral wave of torque converted to rotation -- resulting in a devastating amount of kinetic energy.

Let me now combine the analytic with the (not so) metaphorical and show you what I am reaching for in terms of explanatory power of reference.

These little offset tension cams do a great job of propagating torque energy in a three axis rotation, with one point of support (viz. the chest push video) and releasing it explosively, as any major league catcher will tell you, who wears bogu precisely because of the seriousness of the impact danger.

Are we to assume that a pitcher can linearly push a baseball faster toward the plate than the balletic scheme of rotational transformations that are actually used to do this? (Yet another common ground for the U.S and Japan.) MLB may want to pay MIke hefty consulting fees, if this is so.

If you watch the instant replays or motion analysis (e.g. -- http://www.peavynet.com/video1/Cumberland_Pitch.wmv ) you will see a good pitcher's bent arm tumble in three axes as it comes over (right behind his torso leading with the same three-axis tumble). It comes into an extremely tight radius of turn in the horizontal plane and vertical A/P plane with maximum bend (centripetal constraint) as it passes his center.

The body and arm then uncoil in a three dimensional spiral with (constantly reducing radius) all converging on the point of release thus giving the ball maximum available energy. This process with different application is what I have described in aiki techniques where the energy is going the other way. Muscles function in tension, so the articulation is not as stable going the other way with aiki technique, as it is in pitching the ball.

A pitcher's motion also follows the ikkyo line, not surpisingly. The arm in receiving ikkyo is in inverse postion to the arm in throwing (i.e. -- tenchi). At the end of the throw the pitcher is set up for mae ukemi.

We typically view uke's attacking hand as the throwing arm, maximizing energy for impact. However, an ikkyo may be viewed in this context as converting that attack into a non- throwing arm which I then use to help uke wind up the other way to throw his energy away from me with the other arm.

Last edited by Erick Mead : 10-03-2006 at 01:23 PM.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 10-03-2006, 01:35 PM   #111
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
A point I missed. The major torso joints, shoulder, hip, are universal joints. No cam action of these joints is possible because an out of plane input will alter the plane of movement of the joint without much reaction. Which is sort of my point,
Well there you go, then. Who knew? BTW... there are a few people running around and maybe reading the forum that I've released in a "cam-like" (notice this is what I originally said.. I did not say the joints were cams) into, without any windup or obvious movement. Not to do any self-pumping, but just to indicate that there are witnesses that can support my "cam-like" statement. I.e., it's not just my story against your story. "Stillness in motion".
Quote:
Are we to assume that a pitcher can linearly push a baseball faster toward the plate than the balletic scheme of rotational transformations that are actually used to do this? (Yet another common ground for the U.S and Japan.) MLB may want to pay MIke hefty consulting fees, if this is so.
Why on earth would we confuse martial arts, with all its varied motions, and baseball? So far you seem to be doing some strange analysis of motion that has yet, insofar as I can see, fully explained any unique motion that would be "kokyu power". In fact, to date every analysis you've put down could simply just be your attempts to explain normal motion. Using your "joint rotation" fixation, nothing you have said differentiates between kokyu, ki, normal motion, etc.

Regards,

Mike Sigman
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Old 10-03-2006, 02:52 PM   #112
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Why on earth would we confuse martial arts, with all its varied motions, and baseball? So far you seem to be doing some strange analysis of motion that has yet, insofar as I can see, fully explained any unique motion that would be "kokyu power". In fact, to date every analysis you've put down could simply just be your attempts to explain normal motion. Using your "joint rotation" fixation, nothing you have said differentiates between kokyu, ki, normal motion,
Carefully, now. Who said it was unique? Not me. As the student of Chinese arts you should well know that normal, natural motion is that which accords with the Way, which is to say, what functions without special effort. O-Sensei is not applying any special effort in the videos you sent, he is walking around, almost dancing, dropping strapping youngs lads on their butts.

Normal motion is kokyu as an expression of ki. There is nothing special or mystical about it. I hear tell of a lot of complicated huffing and puffing and pushing and "body development" and I kinda think that is not the great Way, which is manifest in the potential of ki and actualized by kokyu.

What aikido uses to function is an exceedingly common inheritance. The art of using it in this way, now that is the treasure, but it was always ther foir us to enjoy. Most people do not do it because they stop moving normally when confronted with opposition and threat. People untrained in martial arts react like babies who flail and wail when they fall over when learning to walk. It is in our nature to learn how our body fights as we learn how our body walks. Most people never get to learn that, and thus have a stilted, unnatural and unhealthy approach to conflict.

That is pretty much it - returning to our original nature and what we are naturally capable of developing, not our constructed nature -- our maya.

Physics has its issues, as a system of knowledge, but illusion is not one of them.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 10-03-2006, 03:46 PM   #113
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Well then, Abe, Tohei, Ueshiba, and all the others were just simpletons for acting like kokyu power was special or even deserved a special name. Who knew??? Thanks for bringing this startling revelation to the forefront, Erick.

Incidentally,.... just for the sake of discussion.... let's pretend for a minute that there is a special form of movement that takes special training and needs someone to show you how to get started, etc., (sort of like Tohei says he learned it from Tempu Nakamura, and so on). The really interesting question is whether every practitioner of a martial art should learn how to do that stuff. It's an interesting philosophical discussion because it potentially means that some teachers and students, etc., are left out in the cold. What's your opinion on this potential problem?

Regards,

Mike Sigman
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Old 10-03-2006, 04:38 PM   #114
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Well then, Abe, Tohei, Ueshiba, and all the others were just simpletons for acting like kokyu power was special or even deserved a special name.
If someone disagrees, or has a different viewpoint, you say something like 'Well, so and so must have been stupid to practice that...' etc., dishonestly implying that those that are disagreeing or having that different viewpoint are calling so and so stupid. It really doesn't work as a logical debate tactic.

People that think it does must have a problem with people naturally disagreeing with them or others.


Justin

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"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 10-03-2006, 04:56 PM   #115
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
That is pretty much it - returning to our original nature and what we are naturally capable of developing, not our constructed nature -- our maya.

Physics has its issues, as a system of knowledge, but illusion is not one of them.
Erick and others,

Please allow me to recuse myself from the discussion at this point. I do so without implying either agreement or disagreement with your statements, but simply because it is not a discussion I wish to have in this venue and under these conditions. It is not that I do think it would be an interesting discussion, only that its likely direction would take it too far off topic. This message is intended only to signal that my failure to comment should not be interpreted as having any other meaning.

I have enjoyed the discussion, and I respectfully request you not make any 'parting shot', tempting as it may be - as I will not be available to respond this time.

Thank you,
Chhi'mčd Künzang
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Old 10-03-2006, 04:59 PM   #116
Mike Sigman
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

I think I'm out of it, too. Here's our little Sigman-chaser once again with nothing but personal remarks to contribute to an Aikido discussion. I'll let Erick discuss the issues with the little Cheng Man Ching practitioner.

Mike
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Old 10-03-2006, 06:55 PM   #117
dps
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

A link that explains in simple terms about human balance and motor control.
http://www.ee.umanitoba.ca/~mousavi/...ch_Balance.htm

Erik,
In your explanation of balancing the human body with gyroscopic movement of a chaotic figure eight, what is the direction of movement of the pattern?
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Old 10-03-2006, 07:53 PM   #118
dps
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
Hi David,

There is no need to resort to scientific explanations, theory and hypotheses - I feel they detract from the "real" lesson at hand. Always in simple non-esoteric terms.... as my teachers taught.
When teaching to someone new with no understanding, you are right resorting to scientific explanations, theory and hypotheses will confuse and detract from the lesson. But at some point the Aikido student will ask how and why the Aikido works. Since in Aikido the unbalance of your opponent is a key principle, understanding how the body maintains its balance is important in seeing how to unbalance your opponent.
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Old 10-03-2006, 08:02 PM   #119
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Maybe I'm just not smart enough to understand him, but it seems to me that Erick's formulation adds a level of complexity that doesn't really add to my understanding of the movement. In the language of physicists, it might be regarded as an "empty formalism," a restatement that doesnt help us get any deeper into the heart of the matter.
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Old 10-03-2006, 08:53 PM   #120
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Hi David,

I'm sorry, but I too am withdrawing from this conversation. Nothing personal. I think Erick's general theory has merit, but it misses the point. Personally, I think rotational dynamics and gyrations are way off the mark.

As far as understanding kuzushi no heiho, it's all about lines, angles, directions in which balance can be affected, and leverage. It has very little to do with rotational movement in the sense that Erick is talking about - gyro-oscillation. True a very large circle can appear linear. And also true that you can augment linear force with pivoting and spiraling motions, but generally the idea is to put the force in a straight line into the opponent. i.e. even if rotational movement/torque is involved, it is always converted to linear force at some point - e.g. using torque to create leverage to unbalance.

How else do wheels, catapults, slingshots, screwdrivers etc. work?

Feel free to PM me if you like.

Ignatius
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:19 PM   #121
David Orange
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
...normal, natural motion is that which accords with the Way, which is to say, what functions without special effort. O-Sensei is not applying any special effort in the videos you sent, he is walking around, almost dancing, dropping strapping youngs lads on their butts.
Now you're really close to my way of thinking about martial arts.

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
Normal motion is kokyu as an expression of ki. There is nothing special or mystical about it.
I do agree that normal motion is kokyu as an expression of ki and that it is not special or mystical in ordinary life, but that, when refined and cultivated it is both very special and deeply mystical because ordinary people don't even keep the surface level of it. Far from refining and cultivating it, they lose it in habitual movement and fear-based reactions.

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
What aikido uses to function is an exceedingly common inheritance. The art of using it in this way, now that is the treasure, but it was always ther foir us to enjoy. Most people do not do it because they stop moving normally when confronted with opposition and threat.
Very much agreed.

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
People untrained in martial arts react like babies who flail and wail when they fall over when learning to walk.
There, I think you need to observe more babies more closely. Unless an adult attaches intense emotion to their walking and falling, babies take both as ordinary miracles in stride. They typically don't even get flustered when they fall (unless they fall really hard) and just get up and keep on about their business.

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
It is in our nature to learn how our body fights as we learn how our body walks. Most people never get to learn that, and thus have a stilted, unnatural and unhealthy approach to conflict.
Both points I strongly advocate. However, even lions and panthers must learn to fight and they do that mostly by playing among themselves, with their parents and siblings. Our society (human society, ego-based and power-hungry) tends to pit us against each other and breeds competition instead of cooperation and sharing. This is why Jigoro Kano's maxim "Ji ta kyo e" (improve together with the other guy) is so revolutionary. But even more than aikido, judo gives us a ground for the kind of play-fighting by which lions and tigers become strong and able fighters.

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
That is pretty much it - returning to our original nature and what we are naturally capable of developing, not our constructed nature -- our maya.
Yes, this is true, but we do have to develop that nature. I think the mistake is in reliance on "second nature" development and I think that you have named it quite well as "maya".

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
Physics has its issues, as a system of knowledge, but illusion is not one of them.
However, I do think that physics sometimes suffers the illusion (physicists may, at least) that it can and should be used to explain everything. And I think some things are best not attempted through rationality. Zen, for instance, teaches exactly that. Enlightenment is said to be "Nothing special."

As for Mike:

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
Abe, Tohei, Ueshiba, and all the others were just simpletons for acting like kokyu power was special or even deserved a special name. Who knew???
Again, the name is not particularly "special" in Japanese language. It's an ordinary word for "breathing." Of course, it has a "special" meaning in martial arts terms, but that's only a matter of refinement, not a matter of its basic nature.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
let's pretend for a minute that there is a special form of movement that takes special training and needs someone to show you how to get started, etc., (sort of like Tohei says he learned it from Tempu Nakamura, and so on).
Granted, it would take an extraordinary person to develop the full range of aiki technique without having someone show him how to get started (and guide him quite far down the path), but what did Tempu Nakamura actually teach Tohei? Isn't he the guy whose main influence on Tohei was a single sentence? "The mind leads the body."

Unless I'm mistaken, that was the major part of what Tohei said he learned from Nakamura. And he said that the major part of what he learned from Morihei Ueshiba was how to relax. And by applying those two principles, along with his well-developed judo physique and mentality, he was able to master aikido in rather short order.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote:
The really interesting question is whether every practitioner of a martial art should learn how to do that stuff. It's an interesting philosophical discussion because it potentially means that some teachers and students, etc., are left out in the cold.
I think that's simply a matter of personal capacity. O-Sensei taught many, many people, but the true stand-outs were rather few: Shirata, Mochizuki, Tomiki, Tenryu, Saito, Shioda and not so very many others. It was similar in judo. There were some five million Japanese practicing judo before WWII, but only twelve achieved tenth dan. There was only one Mifune and he was one of the few whose name ever became known outside the circle of judo enthusiasts.

So while I think that aikido is based on natural human movements, it is true that they must still be refined and cultivated and that, even with one's utmost efforts, one's personal capacity will still define a limit for him well below the likes of Ueshiba, Mifune, Mochizuki, Saito and Shioda.

Add to that one's personal inclination to train and their actual application of effort to fully master the art and it should be no wonder that the vast majority of practitioners will remain "in the cold".

But even at that, anyone who dilligently practices can gain a great deal from aikido training and can enhance their life and their ability to deal with the challenges of life according to their needs.

Best wishes.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:29 PM   #122
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote:
A link that explains in simple terms about human balance and motor control.
http://www.ee.umanitoba.ca/~mousavi/...ch_Balance.htm

Erik,
In your explanation of balancing the human body with gyroscopic movement of a chaotic figure eight, what is the direction of movement of the pattern?
I judge the shape from my own sense of the hip movement I feel and this is corroborated by the cyclic pattern in Figure 1 in the "Correlated Hip Motion" study, p. 3. you see one perspective of this motion in 2 dimensions. There is also the fact that the traverse across the leg quadrants provide two opposed points of static constraint -- driving all tracks to the center. The traverses across the shikaku quadrants have to be recovered in some cyclic dynamic, therefore strongly suggesting two major loops joined at the center.

To see the shape clearly you need a long observation time for the system to fill up its typical phase space, or path history. A 3D graph in the complex plane is usually the best manner of seeing the pattern dynamic. I understand what this sort of transform does, but I cannot do it.

A chaotic system observed long enough will fill up its characteristic phase space. In this case, it should be a fuzzy looking figure eight figure made up of full loops, minor loops and tightly folded reversal loops. The motion is reversible at any time without much loss of momentum (because the two eccentric points of rotation are in constant parity) in which case the path tracks back in reverse either along its immediate past trajectory as a closely folded loop in the same approximate curvature as the full loop, or as a minor excursion loop.

You can see major cycles as well as the minor cycles in that diagram. That may indicate a cardioid shape of the minor (interior loops) loops or a sort of floral shape (exterior loops). That level of detail would be difficult to guess at without a lot of data.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:41 PM   #123
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Isn't there a vertical componet to the chaotic figure eight?
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Old 10-03-2006, 09:59 PM   #124
Erick Mead
 
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
Robert John wrote:
Hopefully this'll take some of the guess work out of what I'm describing.

The following video shows the exercise being done, towards the end, the person on the left holds him down slightly, without exerting visible pressure.

http://www.badongo.net/vid/197241

I don't think the connection is at the shoulder, in fact I think the spine plays a more prominent role, and needs to be coordinated with the tanden. Its not "just" the tanden.
Its simply an exercise in understand what it means to "stand" and transmit your weight without committing it.
I see what you mean. Sorry I missed this earlier. Thanks for the video.

This actually helps me see something what Mike is so vaguely talking about, although it also confirms me further that he is wrong.

By reference to the front of his pants with the line of the mat just in front of them (but in background) you can see that the man on the right (apparently more skilled by the interaction), leans his hips forward just as he begins his push, but keeping his legs straight and his torso relatively steady. A straight leg pivot describes an arc, and if it is departing the center, it is headed downward, thus acclerating under force of gravity with no muscular input other that creating the topple.

So, while it seems "obvious" that like neither one has anything supporting their push, it is visually deceptive. The reaction to the push of the partners' arms is in fact absorbed by their own countering forward momentum, closely in rhythm. This is the closest I have seen to anything "springlike" but it is simply using that initiating forward momentum as the backstop for the backward reaction to the forward push.

AAANNDD most importantly -- it is angular momentum created by gravity accleration from an intentionally perturbed balance system that commences the whole thing.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 10-03-2006, 10:03 PM   #125
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Re: What is "Aikido"?

Quote:
David Orange wrote:
Unless an adult attaches intense emotion to their walking and falling, babies take both as ordinary miracles in stride. They typically don't even get flustered when they fall (unless they fall really hard) and just get up and keep on about their business.
I find it very amusing that among the first things that I learned in Aikido was; how to stand, how to fall, how to move ,how to breathe
and the amount of fear I attached to falling until I learned how to do it again..
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