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Old 07-12-2006, 12:21 PM   #26
Chuck.Gordon
Location: Frederick, MD
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 509
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Re: Whats the point of a shoto bokken?

Quote:
Eric Webber wrote:
I've also been at a seminar with a senior student of Saotome where we used both bokken and shoto....
Please note that even Saotome doesn't claim his nito is anything resembling authentic. It's Saotome Nito and is designed to supplement his (truly beautiful) aikido. It is NOT nito technique from any classical ryuha. That don't make it ignoreable, just be sure if you've done Saotome's nito, that you don't tell a Niten Ichi Ryu guy or gal that you've done nito ...

Quote:
cguzik wrote:
There are also different lengths of shoto.
Yep. There is no 'standard' length for ANY sword outside of specific ryuha. In my tradition, our 'ideal' tanto is damn near a shoto for some ... in fact, we often use a moku-shoto for tanto-waza.

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Can anyone speak to the terms kodachi and wakizashi,
Sho = lesser
To = blade

Wakizashi = the smaller sword worn accompanying a katana.

Ko = small or lesser
Dachi = sword (lit. straight sword, but the translation is flexed, actually and can also apply to a curved blade).

Shoto/wakizashi are almost interchangeable.

Kodachi tends to be used by certain ryuha, notably Takenouchi RYu among others, to denote a specific type of blade that's larger than a 'standard' tanto and not quite a wakizashi. It was a weapon acceptable for use by classes other than the samurai and commonly found as a sort of utility/hunting knife might be in a modern sense.

Quote:
Dennis Hooker wrote:
The foot work, body placement, response to attack and attacking with a Shoto is not the same as that of a katana.
What Dennis is referring to, IMHO, is maai. While maai is a fluid thing, even in terms of taijutsu, mai changes drastically as you exchange hand for dagger, dagger for short sword, short sword for long sword, long sword for short staff, short staff for polearm. In terms of a comprehensive system of classical combat, the tactical application may alter depending on the weapon in hand, but the strategic and philosophical underpinnings MUST remain untouched. If this isn't true, then probably the bits were cobbled together without much forethought or understanding of riai. IMNSHO.

Quote:
Dennis Hooker wrote:
It should also be pointed out that there is no historical data supporting warrior class samurai wearing the long sword while setting in seza.
Yep. Older ryuha might use iaigoshi or a similar 'squatting' posture, but you;'ll seldom see seiza as such. His comments also touch upon the idea of riai. It shouldn't matter what weapons you (or your opponent) are using, the technical underpinnings of your art should work across the board with little alteration.. What DOES change is maai ...

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Old 07-12-2006, 12:27 PM   #27
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
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Re: Whats the point of a shoto bokken?

Thanks Chuck. I believe Ellis Amdur's version of Araki ryu uses the term kodachi as well. At least, that's the term he used at an Aiki Expo when his bokken shattered (that was one powerfull strike) and he called out 'kodachi!' to signal a change in the kata...

His uke responded without a hitch...awesome demonstration.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 07-12-2006, 01:16 PM   #28
John Boswell
 
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Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Re: Whats the point of a shoto bokken?

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Thanks Chuck. I believe Ellis Amdur's version of Araki ryu uses the term kodachi as well. At least, that's the term he used at an Aiki Expo when his bokken shattered (that was one powerfull strike) and he called out 'kodachi!' to signal a change in the kata...

His uke responded without a hitch...awesome demonstration.

Best,
Ron
He continued while using a splintered bokken? Dang! Talk about a serious weapon for a demo! A blunt "stick" is on thing, but a sharp, pointy stabbing utinsil is something altogether different! Remind me not to take ukemi for Ellis Sensei.

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Old 07-13-2006, 02:22 AM   #29
Chuck.Gordon
Location: Frederick, MD
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 509
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Re: Whats the point of a shoto bokken?

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
He continued while using a splintered bokken? Dang! Talk about a serious weapon for a demo! A blunt "stick" is on thing, but a sharp, pointy stabbing utinsil is something altogether different! Remind me not to take ukemi for Ellis Sensei.
If he was demo'ing Araki Ryu, it doesn't surprise me a bit. Araki Ryu is a deadly serious system and the 'kata' are themselves easily as intense and dangerous as kumite or randori in some other styles.

cg

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