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Old 06-29-2006, 07:37 PM   #26
justinc
Dojo: Enso Center, Redmond
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 55
Australia
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Re: Seagal Video+Hapkido Video

At our school, almost all our basic techniques are taught and practiced from a stationary position. The basic philosophy is that if you can make it work on a static position, a moving target is far easier to move to. It ensure you have the basics of correct balance taking correct. While I have no idea who the master is, our school looks and teaches techniques that look very similar to that video. There's little to no leverage on the joints, it's all just positioning, balance and connection - all the things that you would expect to see in your average Aikido class. For those that don't think static attacks are realistic, perhaps you should come to a few of the pubs I used to hang out at. Not uncommon for some guy to not take a liking to you and just threaten by grabbing an arm or hand and standing there very still looking at you straight in the eye.

As for throws from strikes, it's quite possible. Striking arts aren't always about just breaking a bone - particularly one that uses a blending philosophy like Hapkido does. Strikes are just like atemi - used to move the attacker to an advantageous position for the defender. I've been thrown quite a few times from a well placed kick and punch at just the right point in my movement and there's little I can do about it. Part of Aikido is blending. If you see a punch coming at you, you don't just stand there and absorb it, do you? Moving to get out of the way and if they just connect at the right time, well, there's a breakfall or roll. What you see there is fairly common sort of punch from a technique. I've used exactly the same sort of technique quite a lot. Really surprises your partner when the think they've got you only to find themselves turning into a strike moving rapidly at their jaw and the tables reversed shortly thereafter.

There's nothing athletic about uke here. Some schools don't like to practice breakfalls, or teach that having a breakfall means that nage did something wrong. The falls are just a method of protecting yourself, and may even be used for a counter, particularly a sacrifice throw. As for nage just running around and then uke takes a fall, you're welcome to come to our school and see if that is really the case.

As for the tapping. Yup, that's pure and simple theatrics. Like someone said above, we use a single tap for when the lock is on, two taps if a technique is painful (for uke's definition of painful). We don't teach pain compliance, but we're training, and occasionally mess something up hence the need for different signals.

Justin Couch
Student of life.
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Old 06-30-2006, 09:57 AM   #27
aikigirl10
Dojo: Aikido of Ashland
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 395
United_States
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Re: Seagal Video+Hapkido Video

Quote:
Paul Nowicki wrote:
Another thing that struck me about the Hapkido clip is all the techniques were performed from a very static attack. They guy just stands there. Who grabs your wrist and stands there for you to throw him? Very first basic Aikido is done like that but after that everything is done with movement, pulling uke, pushing uke etc. I thought it was fast and flashy but not very realistic. If our attacks are considered unrealistic, I'm not sure what those would be labeled at. i say you have to have movement and dynamics in all of this to get these techniques to work against someone who is actually intending to hit you,grab, you etc without stopping and just standing there for you to throw/lock him.

My limited experience leads me to this train of thought. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree with you very much so.
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Old 06-30-2006, 10:05 AM   #28
Chavez
Dojo: Yuki Dojo
Location: Corpus Christi,Texas
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3
United_States
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Re: Seagal Video+Hapkido Video

Although I cannot be certain, I doubt that Debbie Gorman is still in training. She was student under Matsuoka Sensei long ago during the Tenshin Dojo days.
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Old 06-30-2006, 10:28 AM   #29
ChrisMoses
Dojo: TNBBC (Icho Ryu Aiki Budo), Shinto Ryu IaiBattojutsu
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 906
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Re: Seagal Video+Hapkido Video

Quote:
Justin Couch wrote:
At our school, almost all our basic techniques are taught and practiced from a stationary position. The basic philosophy is that if you can make it work on a static position, a moving target is far easier to move to. It ensure you have the basics of correct balance taking correct. While I have no idea who the master is, our school looks and teaches techniques that look very similar to that video. There's little to no leverage on the joints, it's all just positioning, balance and connection - all the things that you would expect to see in your average Aikido class. [snip]

As for nage just running around and then uke takes a fall, you're welcome to come to our school and see if that is really the case.
I'll assume you're mostly addressing this to me.

1) I don't have a problem with static training, I do a ton of it. It can be very difficult to do *honest* static training however. If uke is relaxed and static and nage is allowed to move as fast as they want, I don't believe this teaches much of anything. If partners agree to offer cooperative resistance and move in the same tempo (whatever that tempo is) this opens the door for some very valuable training. I don't see this happening on this video. If uke was offering any kind of resistance/connection to nage (uke's role in static/slow training) then nage wouldn't be so free to move. Certainly some subtle/internal stuff can be done by nage to get a range of movement, but I don't see that here. Mike Sigman or Dan want to comment on whether or not they see any clues that this guy is doing any internal stuff to get as much freedom of motion as he's getting?

2) You seem to be taking my comments quite personally. I'm not too interested in showing up at your dojo for class to see what you can make work on me. If you think it through, it's kind of a lose lose situation for me. *Assuming that you're doing nearly the same thing in the video, and that I'm correct in my visual analysis* do I play nice during class and take my falls, or do I offer what I consider apropreate resistance? What are the rules for the encounter during class? Can I move as fast as nage or am I supposed to stand passively while nage performs tsukuri without kuzushi? Am I allowed to strike while nage is setting up the throw? Do I do the same thing to the instructor? Now I'm risking injury by looking like a jerk and causing a teacher to lose face... Now before you grab the closest handbag and start swinging, re-read my assumption. I'm not saying your stuff doesn't work, I'm not saying you can't throw me, I'm not saying your teacher can't throw me, I'm saying that if what your doing is exactly like what's being demonstrated in the hapkido video, then I'm not going to be very impressed and that a large part of it won't work on me if I train in the manner I'm used to. That's it.
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Old 06-30-2006, 12:40 PM   #30
ChrisMoses
Dojo: TNBBC (Icho Ryu Aiki Budo), Shinto Ryu IaiBattojutsu
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 906
United_States
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Re: Seagal Video+Hapkido Video

Hhere's something to watch.

Not it's not aikido, but it's probably some of the best footage you can find. This thing is 30 minutes long, and I haven't seen much that impressed me more. If you can't see the qualitative difference between this and the Hapkido video, I just don't know what to tell you.
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