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Old 12-10-2001, 04:42 PM   #1
cguzik
Location: Tulsa, OK
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Two Hand Grabs

Are the following names for two hands grabbing one forearm synonymous?

- katate dori ryote mochi

- morote dori (or is it moryote dori)

Is there a difference, or is the latter simply a contraction of the former?

Chris Guzik

Last edited by cguzik : 12-10-2001 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 12-10-2001, 05:23 PM   #2
Greg Jennings
Dojo: WPAFB JiuJitsu Group
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Re: Two Hand Grabs

Quote:
Originally posted by cguzik
Are the following names for two hands grabbing one forearm synonymous?

- katate dori ryote mochi

- morote dori (or is it moryote dori)

Is there a difference, or is the latter simply a contraction of the former?

I've heard Ryotedori and Ryotemochi used interchangably for two hands grabbing two.

I don't know if Katatedori Ryotemochi is the same as just Ryotemochi.

Morotedori is two hands grabbing one.

Jun is the local language expert, though.

Regards,


Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 12-10-2001, 06:17 PM   #3
lt-rentaroo
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Hello,

Well, here is what I learned.

Katatetori (katatedori) is one hand grabing one hand/wrist.

Ryotetori (ryotedori) is two hands grabbing two hands.

Katate Ryotetori (katate ryotedori, morotedori, and sometimes all one word Katateryotetori) is two hands grabbing one hand/wrist.

Depending on which dojo I'm at, the vocabulary changes a bit. It's good to know the different terms for techniques, that way I'll know what the Sensei is talking about no matter where I go.

Like Greg though, I'm not sure if the two terms you've listed are the same.

LOUIS A. SHARPE, JR.
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Old 12-10-2001, 07:44 PM   #4
cguzik
Location: Tulsa, OK
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Thanks for the replies.

This is, indeed, a result of different terminology used in different dojo. When I initially learned these attacks, I learned them as follows.

katatedori: uke grabs nage's wrist/forearm with "same-side" hand, e.g., uke's left hand grabs nage's right wrist/forearm

morotedori: uke grabs nage's wrist/forearm (either one) with both hands

ryotedori: uke grabs nage's left wrist/forearm with right hand and nage's right wrist/forearm with left hand from in front

ushiro ryotedori: uke grabs nage's left wrist/forearm with left hand and nage's right wrist/forearm with right hand from behind

As for the "cross-hand grab," in which for example uke's right hand grabs nage's right hand, I have heard this called both kosadori and aihanmi katatedori.

I recently came across katatedori ryotemochi in the ASU handbook and was not sure if it refers to what I learned as ryotedori or morotedori.

The technique name which piqued my curiosity is katatedori ryotemochi kokyu tanden ho. At first I thought this would be your basic, seated, kokyuho. But then one of my training partners said he thought it was a projection throw from morotedori.

Can anybody elaborate?

Chris Guzik
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Old 12-10-2001, 09:10 PM   #5
lt-rentaroo
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Hello,

Hmmm, I'm not entirely positive here but I think the "katatedori ryotemochi kokyu tanden ho" technique you are refering to is also known as "sokumen iriminage". Jun could definitely help out here since he trains at an ASU Dojo.

I'm not too good with describing techniques in writing, so I won't bastardize the technique by attempting to do so.

LOUIS A. SHARPE, JR.
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Old 12-10-2001, 10:21 PM   #6
Erik
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Checking in Saotome's book we get the following:

ryotemochi: Two-hand grab (either two hands grabbing one hand or two hands grabbing two hands).

kokyo tanden ho: An exercise in musubi, in blending the rhythm of your vital energies with those of your partner.

If I've digested it correctly, it's your basic kokyudosa which is usually done at the end of class. A 2-hand grab, one to each wrist, with both partners in a sitting position.
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Old 12-11-2001, 10:18 AM   #7
akiy
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by lt-rentaroo
Hmmm, I'm not entirely positive here but I think the "katatedori ryotemochi kokyu tanden ho" technique you are refering to is also known as "sokumen iriminage".
"Katatedori ryotemochi" is the same as "morotedori." "Katatedori" basically means "grab one hand/arm" and "ryotemochi" can be translated as "holding with both hands."

"Katatedori ryotemochi kokyu tanden ho" is an inordinately long name for "morotedori kokyunage" or, as Louis writes, "morotedori sokumen iriminage." The seated two-handed grab exercise that we often do at the end of class can be called "kokyu tanden ho" by itself or, perhaps more verbosely, "suwari (or zagi) ryotedori kokyu tanden ho."

Doesn't Ki Society folks also use "katatedori ryotemochi"?

-- Jun

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Old 12-11-2001, 10:49 AM   #8
Jon C Strauss
Dojo: Rocky Mountain Ki Society
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Ki Symbol

Quote:
Originally posted by akiy


[Don't] Ki Society folks also use "katatedori ryotemochi"?

-- Jun
Howdy,

Officially, we call two hands grabbing one hand/arm "katatedori ryotemochi," but in class it's usually just called ryotemochi.

We call two hands grabbing two hands or arms: "ryotedori."

And the seated exercise a lot of folks seem to call "kokyu tanden ho" or whatever is just "kokyudosa" to us.

Peace,
JCS
RMKS at CSU

I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him.
--Booker T. Washington
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Old 12-11-2001, 11:19 AM   #9
Greg Jennings
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Quote:
Originally posted by akiy


"Katatedori ryotemochi kokyu tanden ho" is an inordinately long name for "morotedori kokyunage" or, as Louis writes, "morotedori sokumen iriminage." The seated two-handed grab exercise that we often do at the end of class can be called "kokyu tanden ho" by itself or, perhaps more verbosely, "suwari (or zagi) ryotedori kokyu tanden ho."
We say "morotedori kokyu ho" and "kokyu dosa" for the standing and seated exercises, respectively.

OTOH, what we call morotedori kokyu ho and what we'd relate to "sokomen iriminage" are different in several details.

But you know how picky some folks are.

Regards,

Last edited by Greg Jennings : 12-11-2001 at 11:37 AM.

Greg Jennings
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Old 12-11-2001, 12:20 PM   #10
Erik
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally posted by akiy
"Katatedori ryotemochi" is the same as "morotedori." "Katatedori" basically means "grab one hand/arm" and "ryotemochi" can be translated as "holding with both hands."

"Katatedori ryotemochi kokyu tanden ho" is an inordinately long name for "morotedori kokyunage" or, as Louis writes, "morotedori sokumen iriminage." The seated two-handed grab exercise that we often do at the end of class can be called "kokyu tanden ho" by itself or, perhaps more verbosely, "suwari (or zagi) ryotedori kokyu tanden ho."
I should know better than to get involved with the Japanese language.

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