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Old 04-18-2006, 11:58 AM   #101
Richard Langridge
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 62
United Kingdom
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Re: Am i missing something??

Here here. I've only been doing aikido for 3 months now, and due to money/distance can only train 2 or 3 times a week, but I think that this just makes me focus more once I'm on the mat. (Because that time is more important)
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Old 04-18-2006, 01:55 PM   #102
aikigirl10
Dojo: Aikido of Ashland
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 395
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
David Valadez wrote:
Paige,

it is not an insult to point out that you were dismissive to Dennis' insight and assistance. nor is it insulting to suggest that a person that has not yet finished high school has probably not been partial to the latest academic discourse being practiced at the university level. we are dealing here with a matter of likely exposure - not a matter of personal intelligence. if anything, you'd not want the exposure level you have at the high school level to be the apex of your experience. i'm giving you the benefit of that doubt by expecting you to be exposed to a great deal more as you progress in your education.
It's an insult David, that you think you can make assumptions about people based only on their age and level of education. Don't assume i'm not smart because i'm a Sophomore in highschool. You don't know me and you don't know how much i've been exposed to.

The first time I took the ACT was in 7th grade. No, i'm not trying to impress you by any means believe me, I wouldn't waste my time. I'm trying to tell you that you need to stop questioning my intelligence and you need to stop making assumptions. "Likely exposure" is just that likely THis means often but not all the time.

So please David.... You're making my ears bleed...
*Paige*
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:02 PM   #103
aikigirl10
Dojo: Aikido of Ashland
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Re: Am i missing something??

Omg... I am soo done with aikiweb. Every thread I post in ends up in a big fight. I'll see you guys later. And i'm sorry to those of you who are not the ones causing it.

C ya!!
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:03 PM   #104
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Re: Am i missing something??

Paige, he made no reference to you being smart or not.

That is the crux of the problem here...people continually read things that simply aren't on the page.

Cough. Pardon the pun.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:51 PM   #105
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Paige, he made no reference to you being smart or not.

That is the crux of the problem here...people continually read things that simply aren't on the page.

Cough. Pardon the pun.

Best,
Ron
But, Ron, part of interpreting literary writing (prose as you like to call his "writing") goes beyond what is written on the page. You can disagree with me, Amelia, and Paige all you want and you can stand behind David all you want, but we will continue to interpret the implied expressions behind his "prose." I already essentially agreed to disagree with David, now, can we?

Now, can we go back to discussing the actual issue here on this thread? (Paige, you too, Jun came in already to ask us to calm things down. It's really rare for Jun to use his moderator powers so it's best to respect his request. I know how hard it can be to run a board like this. And, mine, well, is small time compared to this. Please come by and visit us.)

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:58 PM   #106
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
I already essentially agreed to disagree with David, now, can we?
I wasn't speaking to you...I was speaking to Paige. That would be why I specifically addressed my post to her.

My general opinion about what is happening here is unchanged, as is true for you as well. That's ok by me.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 04-18-2006, 03:03 PM   #107
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
I wasn't speaking to you...I was speaking to Paige. That would be why I specifically addressed my post to her.

My general opinion about what is happening here is unchanged, as is true for you as well. That's ok by me.

Best,
Ron
But I was speaking to you. You have already in a previous comment attempted to engage me with this quote here:
Quote:
I don't think David was saying that "I'm a serious student and you're not".
You were quoting me remember? I'm choosing not to get into a "tit for tat" debate over David any more. Understand? If you want to debate what I meant with the comment we may, but I wish to leave David and his personality out of it -- as Jun requested.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 04-18-2006, 04:35 PM   #108
Keith R Lee
Location: Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 219
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Re: Am i missing something??

Man, this thread has been almost as entertaining as the Aikido does not work in a fight thread!!

Back and forth, tit for tat, eye for an eye; I'm imbued with the peace, harmony, and aiki in this thread!!

I'd have to say that I'd agree that David's posts are being taken out of context, mostly because it puts the onus of the issue on the practitioner themselves and people would rather shift the burden to somewhere else. Again, the crux of the matter being the difference between one who practices Aikido as a hobby or attempts to fully integrate it into their lives. Even then, I would say there are a range of levels in between these two levels. For the person who trains in Aikido purely for martial skills and focuses on that aspect of the art only, are they a "committed" student? What about one who focuses on the spiritual? Are both sides necessary to fully incorporate Aikido into one's life?

Also, in terms of who is a "hobbyist" and who is not, I would argue that the vast majority of Aikido practitioners fall under the "hobbyist" category, myself included. The only time in my life I felt like I was seriously pursuing Aikido was during my stay as an uchi deshi between my shodan and nidan. During that time, and over the years, I have been fortunate to meet people who I think are seriously, deeply committed to the Way. They are far and few between.

As in I could count them on two hands.

Sure, for any certain individual, they might be making a "commitment" to Aikido, cycling, or Catholicism in regards to the time and energy they have available. A few hours a week, some extra practice here and there. Even if they are "fully engaged" focusing all their energy on that task, it is not the same as being Ando shihan, Lance Armstrong, or a priest or Arch-Bishop in the Catholic Church. There is definitely a standard by which people judge others in terms of their commitment to what they do and it being relative to the time they have available has nothing to do with that standard.

There are better cyclist who are more committed than me and probably anyone else on this board; they are professionals, athletes, people completely dedicated to fitness and their bikes. There are people more devoted to Catholicism than others. Priests, Nuns, Bishops, sometimes even the quiet little old lady who has never missed Church in her whole life and prays every day. And there definitely are Aikido practitioners who are more committed than others, and have a deeper and more complex understanding than I, and most of the others on this board. Shihans, instructors, and sometimes just a very dedicated and special student. Regardless, there is definitely some standard by which one judges the "dedication" of another person in regards to Aikido, or anything else for that matter.

What David is saying, and Ron seems to agree with (if I'm putting words in your mouth Ron, please call me on it), and I agree with as well is that standard is very, very high.

And it is non-negotiable.

Just because you think you're "committed" does not make it so. Just because you have romantic ideals of being a sensei does not make it so. Just because Aikido "clicks" with you, and seems to help make sense of what is wrong in your life does not make it so.

The cold, hard truth of the matter is that most of us are hobbyists. And, in spite of that, perhaps because of that, our practice is all the more important. It gives us a glimpse of our potential, our untapped abilities that would rise out of us if only we were willing to make that commitment. It is that aspect of Aikido, or cycling, or Catholicism that is truly wonderful. The potential to touch and be a part of something better and greater than ourselves. It does not lessen us to be cognizant of our own shortcomings in regards to practice, it should make us stronger. Knowing our weaknesses and our faults should encourage us and spur us to grow. Anything else is merely stroking one's ego in order to inflate the purpose of one's practice, never a good thing. Instead, it only serves to diminish the examples that people who came before us (sensei ) because we are not as good as them and feel the need to justify lack of commitment.

...

This thread has made me think of this quote:

"It is better to never have known the Way, than to follow it and then step off."

Keith Lee
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Old 04-18-2006, 06:32 PM   #109
Qatana
 
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Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
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Re: Am i missing something??

It seems that what is missing is that almost everyone here has forgotten that Paige is 16 years old and has an entire lifetime to train. And that Many teenagers who have been training in an art since childhood decide to take a break, take a walk, try something else. And sometimes they return and go on to greatness, and some have perfctly satisfying lives doing Something Else.
Paige, you just keep on doing what you are doing. Question yourself but don't beat yourself up because you are different today than you were yesterday. Odds are you will be different tomorrow, too.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 04-18-2006, 08:43 PM   #110
Michael O'Brien
Dojo: Nashville Aikikai
Location: Nashville, Tn
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 288
United_States
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Keith Lee wrote:
Man, this thread has been almost as entertaining as the Aikido does not work in a fight thread!!

Back and forth, tit for tat, eye for an eye; I'm imbued with the peace, harmony, and aiki in this thread!!

I'd have to say that I'd agree that David's posts are being taken out of context, mostly because it puts the onus of the issue on the practitioner themselves and people would rather shift the burden to somewhere else. Again, the crux of the matter being the difference between one who practices Aikido as a hobby or attempts to fully integrate it into their lives. Even then, I would say there are a range of levels in between these two levels. For the person who trains in Aikido purely for martial skills and focuses on that aspect of the art only, are they a "committed" student? What about one who focuses on the spiritual? Are both sides necessary to fully incorporate Aikido into one's life?

Also, in terms of who is a "hobbyist" and who is not, I would argue that the vast majority of Aikido practitioners fall under the "hobbyist" category, myself included. The only time in my life I felt like I was seriously pursuing Aikido was during my stay as an uchi deshi between my shodan and nidan. During that time, and over the years, I have been fortunate to meet people who I think are seriously, deeply committed to the Way. They are far and few between.

As in I could count them on two hands.

Sure, for any certain individual, they might be making a "commitment" to Aikido, cycling, or Catholicism in regards to the time and energy they have available. A few hours a week, some extra practice here and there. Even if they are "fully engaged" focusing all their energy on that task, it is not the same as being Ando shihan, Lance Armstrong, or a priest or Arch-Bishop in the Catholic Church. There is definitely a standard by which people judge others in terms of their commitment to what they do and it being relative to the time they have available has nothing to do with that standard.

There are better cyclist who are more committed than me and probably anyone else on this board; they are professionals, athletes, people completely dedicated to fitness and their bikes. There are people more devoted to Catholicism than others. Priests, Nuns, Bishops, sometimes even the quiet little old lady who has never missed Church in her whole life and prays every day. And there definitely are Aikido practitioners who are more committed than others, and have a deeper and more complex understanding than I, and most of the others on this board. Shihans, instructors, and sometimes just a very dedicated and special student. Regardless, there is definitely some standard by which one judges the "dedication" of another person in regards to Aikido, or anything else for that matter.

What David is saying, and Ron seems to agree with (if I'm putting words in your mouth Ron, please call me on it), and I agree with as well is that standard is very, very high.

And it is non-negotiable.

Just because you think you're "committed" does not make it so. Just because you have romantic ideals of being a sensei does not make it so. Just because Aikido "clicks" with you, and seems to help make sense of what is wrong in your life does not make it so.

The cold, hard truth of the matter is that most of us are hobbyists. And, in spite of that, perhaps because of that, our practice is all the more important. It gives us a glimpse of our potential, our untapped abilities that would rise out of us if only we were willing to make that commitment. It is that aspect of Aikido, or cycling, or Catholicism that is truly wonderful. The potential to touch and be a part of something better and greater than ourselves. It does not lessen us to be cognizant of our own shortcomings in regards to practice, it should make us stronger. Knowing our weaknesses and our faults should encourage us and spur us to grow. Anything else is merely stroking one's ego in order to inflate the purpose of one's practice, never a good thing. Instead, it only serves to diminish the examples that people who came before us (sensei ) because we are not as good as them and feel the need to justify lack of commitment.

...

This thread has made me think of this quote:

"It is better to never have known the Way, than to follow it and then step off."
Wow, go on vacation for a few days and things get really interesting while you're gone. LOL

Keith,
I think you summed up a lot of what I would have liked to have said after having read through the last 4 pages of this and definitely said it better than I could have (especially coming from someone who has his bike hanging in the shed right now so he can spend more time trying to move beyond Aikido hobbyist).

Harmony does not mean that there are no conflicts,
for the dynamic spiral of existence embraces both extremes.
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Old 04-18-2006, 08:55 PM   #111
Nick P.
 
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Dojo: Sukagawa Aikido Club of Montreal
Location: Montreal
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Re: Am i missing something??

OK, that was a little ridiculous...

Paige, you asked, and you got whay you might not have liked to hear. Stop using OMG and lol.

David, some of your comments can very, VERY easily be misinterpreted.

The rest of you, move along; there is nothing (left) to see here.

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Old 04-18-2006, 09:31 PM   #112
vjw
Dojo: Rochester Phoenix
Location: Rochester, NY
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 83
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Re: Am i missing something??

"England and America are two countries separated by the same language."
-- Sir Walter Besant

It seems that a lot of great contributors to aikiweb are too. I hope you all step back, take a break, then continue with your contributions which I usually find very worth while reading.

Vic
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Old 04-19-2006, 07:12 AM   #113
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
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Re: Am i missing something??

Anne Marie,

I'm sorry you have taken this so personally. I was not trying to engage you...I was simply stating my opinion. I wish you the best.

Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 04-19-2006, 09:51 AM   #114
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Anne Marie,

I'm sorry you have taken this so personally. I was not trying to engage you...I was simply stating my opinion. I wish you the best.

Ron
Don't worry about me taking threads like this personally. I've learned a long time ago not to take things like this personally thus is the nature of internet bulletin boards. I have no problem with you stating your opinion, but a trite response like "I wasn't talking to you" deserved another trite response like "well, I am talking to you because..." Sorry, but I just couldn't help myself.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 04-19-2006, 10:28 AM   #115
James Davis
 
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri wrote:
Sorry, but I just couldn't help myself.
It's crazy how we get sucked in sometimes, isn't it?

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 04-19-2006, 10:48 AM   #116
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: Am i missing something??

[terminator voice]No problemo [/terminator voice]

Best,
Ron (I didn't mean it to be trite, sorry)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 04-19-2006, 10:55 AM   #117
Keith R Lee
Location: Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Re: Am i missing something??

Thanks Mike,

I hoped I was being clear with what I was tyring to say. Glad it resonated with you.

Good luck with Aikido, and don't forget that bike!!!

Keith Lee
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Old 04-19-2006, 11:49 AM   #118
giriasis
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote:
It's crazy how we get sucked in sometimes, isn't it?
Yeah, but it's so fun when it happens.

Anne Marie Giri
Women in Aikido: a place where us gals can come together and chat about aikido.
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Old 04-19-2006, 06:03 PM   #119
Mike Collins
Location: San Jose
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Re: Am i missing something??

Lotsa words got spoke here. Not many did much though.

I never quit Aikido. I stopped training for a time, a few times, but I never quit Aikido. I thought about it. Then I tried to figure out why I still wanted to continue training. Truth is, I don't think I know why.

I train because I train. Now it's a part of who I perceive myself to be.

I vascillate between being a dilletante, a hobbyist, a serious Aikidoist, and a fool. I suspect everyone else here does too. This thread proves some of that.

Sometimes you make the poop, sometimes ya sling it, sometimes, ya gotta pick it up, throw it away, and start over. People expect an awful lot from themselves, I think.

None of us will leave this life alive, not even the smart ones of us.

But we'll all spend time convincing ourselves otherwise. It's who we are, and it's what we do.

Have Fun!

Mike
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Old 04-20-2006, 12:07 PM   #120
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Re: Am i missing something??

Quote:
Mike Collins wrote:
Sometimes you make the poop, sometimes ya sling it, sometimes, ya gotta pick it up, throw it away, and start over.
My american cousins have such a wonderfull turn of phrase, spot on!

Quote:
None of us will leave this life alive, not even the smart ones of us.
See what I mean.

Thanks Mike, I may have to quote you down the pub tonight when we go for our post practice pint.

Cheers
Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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