Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-02-2006, 09:07 AM   #101
Alec Corper
 
Alec Corper's Avatar
Dojo: Itten Suginami Dojo, Nunspeet
Location: Wapenveld
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 288
Netherlands
Offline
Re: pre-emptive strikes

OK,

What do we do with this.
The Doshu's latest book, page 47, Atemi, defined as, and I quote, "pre-emptive strike".
Nishio Sensei's book lists a variety of atemi that naturally go at the beginning of a technique.
The essence of Aikido is irimi, not tenkan.

peace, brothers

If your temper rises withdraw your hand, if your hand rises withdraw your temper.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2006, 11:00 AM   #102
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: pre-emptive strikes

Quote:
Hi Nick. I can' even remember where I heard that...at least I assume I heard it somewhere...it's too good for me to have come up with on my own...
well, it's a saying worth remembering where ever it came from

Ah, the great thing about aikiweb, things can indeed come back to haunt you/us/them. Muwhahaha. Ahem.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2006, 11:02 AM   #103
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: pre-emptive strikes

Quote:
The Doshu's latest book, page 47, Atemi, defined as, and I quote, "pre-emptive strike".
Cool. I like that, it's nice to have something to point at people who have a very definate idea about what constitutes aikido/atemi...

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2006, 11:41 AM   #104
jonreading
 
jonreading's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido South (formerly Emory Aikikai)
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,073
United_States
Offline
Re: pre-emptive strikes

Michael Jordan (a famous basketball player for the Chicago Bulls) once said in an interview [to paraphrase]: "When I have the ball, I've already scored, my defender just doesn't know it yet."

When does pre-emption begin? If I choose to "pre-emptively" strike someone, does pre-emption only include physical activity? What If my opponent has decided to strike me, but has not found the opportunity to physically execute that decision? Is it fair to restrict the scope of aikido to reaction to physical activity?

If my opponent decides to harm me, isn't that the same as the physical execution of harm? "The opponent that stands before me with malice in his/her heart is already defeated."

It sounds like we're in danger of throwing the baby out with the bath water here. Please don't confuse the benevolent execution of pre-emption with the misinterpretation of hitting someone first. Pre-emptive action, in this case striking, is a valuable tool to training and resolving conflict; in many cases, I call this pro-active aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2006, 04:28 PM   #105
Michael O'Brien
Dojo: Nashville Aikikai
Location: Nashville, Tn
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 288
United_States
Offline
Re: pre-emptive strikes

Ron/Nick,
I read that thread today and immediately thought of this thread when I read David's post as well. LOL

Jon,
Well stated.

Harmony does not mean that there are no conflicts,
for the dynamic spiral of existence embraces both extremes.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2006, 02:34 AM   #106
Dirk Hanss
 
Dirk Hanss's Avatar
Dojo: Aikidoschule Trier
Location: Merzkirchen
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 471
Germany
Offline
Re: pre-emptive strikes

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote:
When does pre-emption begin? If I choose to "pre-emptively" strike someone, does pre-emption only include physical activity? What If my opponent has decided to strike me, but has not found the opportunity to physically execute that decision? Is it fair to restrict the scope of aikido to reaction to physical activity?

If my opponent decides to harm me, isn't that the same as the physical execution of harm? "The opponent that stands before me with malice in his/her heart is already defeated."
All I learned about aikido is that the goal is, to feel the "vibrations" before anything happens physically.

So simply said, if you know, that the attack has started, you have to act, atemi or other technique. In jurisdiction you have to prove, in aikido you have to know, but it is not enough, just to believe an aggression would come.

And it is not enough to tell others, that you have proof about prepared evil aggression until finally you believe it yourself. But that is another thread.

One can argue, in this case pre-emtive strikes are allowed, when the intension is there, or what is allowed is not a pre-emptive strike as the attack was already alive - even if not visible. To me it is all the same.

Dirk
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2006, 07:24 AM   #107
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
Location: Wisconsin
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,224
Offline
Re: pre-emptive strikes

If you go home and find your wife/girlfriend/lover in bed with someone else, it is generally too late for any kind of pre-emptive strike.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2006, 07:58 AM   #108
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: pre-emptive strikes

Nah, the pre-emptive strike should have been keeping her happy in the first place!

Good one, Mark!
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2006, 06:35 AM   #109
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: pre-emptive strikes

Or warning her not to be naughty...

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2006, 12:17 PM   #110
James Davis
 
James Davis's Avatar
Dojo: Ft. Myers School of Aikido
Location: Ft. Myers, FL.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 716
United_States
Offline
Re: pre-emptive strikes

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
If you go home and find your wife/girlfriend/lover in bed with someone else, it is generally too late for any kind of pre-emptive strike.
For my wife, I guess a good preemptive strike would be to already have a suitcase packed for her.

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2006, 12:41 PM   #111
NathanD
Dojo: Nathan Darnell
Location: Riverside, CA
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3
United_States
Offline
Re: pre-emptive strikes

Quote:
Mathew Nowak wrote:
You do not have to wait for anything, you can feel free to strike pre-emptively; all I am saying is that then your action is not in line with Aikido theory and philosophy.

There are NO pre-emptive strikes in Aikido. In the real world, of course there are pre-emptive strikes. The question, however, was whether Aikido has pre-emptive strikes.
Mathew,

I have studied Kenpo for the last 13 years and have just recently ventured into Aikido. I am very confused by your understanding of Aikido. If you acknowledge that preemptive strikes are necessary in the real world, but Aikido does not permit them, then you are saying that someone looking for an effective form of self defense should look somewhere other than Aikido, are you not?

Nathan
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2006, 12:51 PM   #112
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: pre-emptive strikes

Quote:
James Davis, Jr. wrote:
For my wife, I guess a good preemptive strike would be to already have a suitcase packed for her.
I'd love to see you explaining that one away when she says "James, where have all my clothes gone?"

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
O Sensei starts "No Atemi" Aikido? tedehara Techniques 89 03-18-2004 09:28 AM
Dealing with Shoulder Strikes Kensai General 21 09-26-2003 04:38 PM
Systema Seminar with Vladimir Vasiliev, Part 1 aikibaka131 Seminars 2 07-22-2003 01:45 PM
ukemi for neck strikes jaxonbrown Techniques 4 05-28-2003 07:24 AM
Aikido's Strikes. Fudo_Tai Training 11 09-04-2001 08:47 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:41 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2016 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2016 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate