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Old 01-25-2006, 02:54 AM   #26
Johan Nielsen
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 20
Faroe Islands
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Re: Question about back/front roll practice

Quote:
Soon-Kian Phang wrote:
I was watching Ellis Amdur's excellent DVD on Ukemi and he made 2 points which I'm still wondering about:
1) He encourages students to avoid rolling over the shoulder to the hip, but rather along the triceps to the back and then to the side just above the hip. This helps one to avoid rolling over our joints - i.e. shoulder + hip joints.
2) He encourages students in back rolls to avoid putting the back of the back foot flat on the mat, but rather to let the back foot stand on tiptoe. According to him, this allows uke to get up quickly if the opportunity presents itself. Putting the back foot flat on the mat makes it very hard to get up and basically means you have surrendered to tori.

I'm wondering whether anyone has tried (1) for lengthy periods? It seems very comfortable, but I don't see many people rolling that way. Also, I'm wondering about (2) because it seems to put some stress on the ankle.

Thanks very much.
Hello people,
I must start with telling you all that I don't actually train aikido. But I pop in for a visit once in a while to check out your forum. Anyway, as regards the questions, I can vouch for method 1 and 2. This is the way we do it in my dojo, and it works 100%. Perhaps I shall comment a bit further. As for 1) I can say that you roll more over the fleshy parts of the shoulder, back and hip. You want a diagonal roll that spare your bones from bruising. As for 2) I can say that if you keep your balance standing on your tiptoes for as long as possible until you loose your balance and fall, you can adjust the roll into what the situation requires. For example, you can stand up or you can change from a planned backwards roll into a forward roll, depending on the position you might be in. You get a lot more control of what you are doing and it suits better for non-dojo rolls. If you are on a harder surface you're not liable to hurt yourself as easily. This is not possible if you just have tucked your foot under your body and placed the ankle on the ground. I recommend trying these methods.
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Old 01-27-2006, 07:26 PM   #27
kokyu
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 283
Hong Kong
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Re: Question about back/front roll practice

Quote:
Johan Martensson wrote:
Hello people,
I can say that if you keep your balance standing on your tiptoes for as long as possible until you loose your balance and fall, you can adjust the roll into what the situation requires.
Thanks for the tip. I never thought of trying to keep my balance to such an exent. Will do it at my next keiko.
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:37 AM   #28
Johan Nielsen
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 20
Faroe Islands
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Re: Question about back/front roll practice

In the dojo it might not matter that much. But in a non-dojo self-defence situation all the control you can get is good for you. Therefore it's good to learn how to adapt your rolls and breakfalls if you would get pushed or need to avoid some object.
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Old 03-02-2006, 07:22 AM   #29
kokyu
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 283
Hong Kong
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Re: Question about back/front roll practice

When I'm thrown for a forward roll or flip, I sometimes injure the side of my foot - in particular the side of the little toe.

I would be thankful if someone could tell me why this happens. It's something that happens when I'm thrown hard... It's probably due to the way I fold my leg - too slow?
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Old 03-05-2006, 08:33 AM   #30
Johan Nielsen
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 20
Faroe Islands
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Re: Question about back/front roll practice

I would love to help, can you please explain a bit more what happens? Like from taking falls in what techniques or so.

Last edited by Johan Nielsen : 03-05-2006 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 03-05-2006, 09:38 AM   #31
roosvelt
Location: Ontario
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 177
Canada
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Re: Question about back/front roll practice

Quote:
Soon-Kian Phang wrote:
When I'm thrown for a forward roll or flip, I sometimes injure the side of my foot - in particular the side of the little toe.

I would be thankful if someone could tell me why this happens. It's something that happens when I'm thrown hard... It's probably due to the way I fold my leg - too slow?

You didn't use live toes.

Most beginers are taught to use upper side of feet in forward and backward rolls. It seems to be easier at begining. When in faster action, it causes injuries.

Bad practice, bad instructor. It take longer to correct a bad habit than learning one.

Now go back to basics. Practice your forward roll slowly, and try to touch mat with your underside foot and get up. If you having correct intention, your body will automatically do the rest, like bending the feet inward.
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Old 03-05-2006, 11:12 PM   #32
Michael Varin
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 567
United_States
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Re: Question about back/front roll practice

Phoebus,

I was introduced to some of these guys a couple of years ago and it greatly affected my rolls. Although I made only small changes, the overall improvement was large. These guys deal with much greater energies than we encounter when being thrown. They routinely roll on concrete and gravel, sometimes after three story drops. The first link has an animated explanation of a forward roll, the others are actual footage.

http://www.parkour.x2hosting.co.uk/p...tutorials.html

http://ns33049.ovh.net/%7ebruno/parkour/flyers.wmv

http://ns33049.ovh.net/%7ebruno/parkour/thefirst.mpa

Ultimately, you must remember that rolling is about protecting yourself, so you must develop a level of comfort with your body that allows you to adapt your rolls for any given situation.

Michael
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:17 AM   #33
Johan Nielsen
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 20
Faroe Islands
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Re: Question about back/front roll practice

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote:
Phoebus,

Ultimately, you must remember that rolling is about protecting yourself, so you must develop a level of comfort with your body that allows you to adapt your rolls for any given situation.

Michael
Very importantnt info here. This is often forgotten in the dojo.You may hear about it but you dont understand the importance until you get thrown hard or fall hard outside the dojo.

So to protect your toes or the outside of the foot you may want to try to "flex" your foot upwards towards your knee so the foot is more L-shaped in relation to the leg. This enables you to take the impact from the floor on the fleshier parts of your foot. It will save your ankles and perhaps your toes too.
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Old 03-06-2006, 07:39 AM   #34
kokyu
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 283
Hong Kong
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Re: Question about back/front roll practice

Roosvelt, Michael and Johan, many thanks for your kind advice. I think all of you have hit upon the source of my problems
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