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Old 02-04-2006, 04:40 AM   #26
Matt Molloy
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Re: Race and Aikido

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Not at all. It's a good point. Hey, I'm willing to learn, I just insist on good teachers...

Best,
Ron

*Not Worthy Bow.* (Aikiweb doesn't have this smilie.)





Cheers,

Matt.
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Old 02-06-2006, 04:59 AM   #27
Dirk Hanss
 
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Re: Race and Aikido

Quote:
Jo Adell wrote:
As I recall, most of the Chicago 7 were either white or Jewish.
1st. Sorry all for my ignorance, but I always thought, Jewish are (mostly) white. If not, which colour do they have? All I have met or seen on television were as pale as I am.

2nd "Race and Aikido"
I know, there aikido styles, which practice competion, but races? This is not Formula 1!

Well back to more serious topics, AFAIK the current status of genetics and ethnicl science is, that all human beings are from African origin, possibly another origin in Asia. So yes there are many prejudices - and I share many. I thought, I did not, but when I went through a park at midnight passing a group of Turkish men, or when I went from Manhattan to JFK by tube and suddenly I saw, I was the only pale person left, looking in all the dark faces - yes also brown, but dark means her probably only tired from work, etc. but to me it looked like anger - yes I knew they are all there. But is it really a question of ethnical differences? They do not have to be black, yellow, brown or red - sorry I do not know the politically correct phrases, they change too frequently - it is ogften enough sufficient if the are small or tall (fat?), have a scar or a tattoo, dress differently or otherwise look diffrent from the people you meet day by day.

Unfortunately I could not find the original post. Post 1 starts already quoting George Ledyard.

There are many ethnical questions in aikido.
Some (Japanese) shihan told they were aked frquently, if aikido is much easier for Asian people than for European, and they used to reply "No, it is the same pain for them as for you and they have to work as hard as you to become proficient".

One Japanese shihan recently raised the question if there is a reason, why his German student have much more knee problems (even need meniscus oprations) than what he knows from Japan.
Is it just because the get used too late to seiza, is it that Japanese in general have shorter legs, and thus having better angles for practice? Or is the reason simply that most Geerman play football (soccer) or similar sports in their youth and come to aikido already with spoiled knees?


Now it is getting too much for someone ignorant like me. There is still much to say, but it difficult to keep things in order, not getting sarcastic. And I am not a better person than anybody. I have lots of prejudices, some are funny, some aren't. And I do have silly questions, hopefully I do not publish the worst of them in a public forum.

Kind regards

Dirk
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Old 02-06-2006, 10:44 AM   #28
Qatana
 
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Re: Race

Dirk, the "short" answer is- "white" implies European descent. While there are Jews who settled in Europe hundreds of years ago, they came from the Middle east and migrated north over a period of time.So Ethnically we are entirely different from the people who evolved in Europe.
My family came from Russia and Persia, so I am not European.I may be extremely fair skinned, but I don't consider myself "white", just as my best friend, who has "African" features and paler skin than me doesn't consider herself "black".

Somehow we fear those who don't remind us of ourselves, I think. However, sometimes we also fear those who DO remind us of ourselves...

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 02-07-2006, 11:48 AM   #29
Counsel
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Re: Race and Aikido

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
And when good men are silent, bad things happen. I may not be all that good...but I will speak up when I feel it is warrented.
I agree with you and Jean that it is RIGHT to act/speak up. I think Jean and I are questioning the method / technique you used...

Why use a Gedan position (hand position low) when a Jodan position (hand position high) may provide a better result? Neither may be wrong, but the outcome may be different nonetheless...

I think many (perhaps due to ignorance or their life experience) who ask a question or make a statement 'like this' may find it easier to 'swallow the truth' if the answer/response is delivered with a 'dose of sugar' rather than a 'critical eye.'

However, each situation needs to be dealt with 'on its own.'

C

There is ONE race -- the Human Race. The need to break people into smaller, less unified, units is due to our 'need' to be a part of something we 'sympathize with' when there are 'others' that we 'don't agree with.' Why not just understand our differences and revel in them?

Last edited by Counsel : 02-07-2006 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 02-08-2006, 08:42 AM   #30
Dirk Hanss
 
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Re: Race

Quote:
Jo Adell wrote:
Dirk, the "short" answer is- "white" implies European descent. While there are Jews who settled in Europe hundreds of years ago, they came from the Middle east and migrated north over a period of time.So Ethnically we are entirely different from the people who evolved in Europe.
My family came from Russia and Persia, so I am not European.I may be extremely fair skinned, but I don't consider myself "white", just as my best friend, who has "African" features and paler skin than me doesn't consider herself "black".

Somehow we fear those who don't remind us of ourselves, I think. However, sometimes we also fear those who DO remind us of ourselves...
Hi Jo,
European descent? LOL
I totally feel and look European and the best source I have about my forefathers is a little book from my grandparents about the genealogical tree from the time of their marriage (showing this nice "Nazi" emblem.
So some of my forefathers come from Hungary (Hun descent? Asian?) some were called "Kriechenbaum" or "Griechenbaum" - no proof, but could be Jewish. A part of my wife's family comes from Southern Italy, where Trojans (European or Asian?) settled and Phoenician, which was occupied by Turkish and other Arabs for centuries. Nearly half of the Iberian population are Moor descents, even if they call themselves Andalusian (Germanic tribe).
Unless a few pure Celtics and Norwegians Icelandic (Vikings), who can say that he is really European descent?

Could be a long discussion, but maybe in another thread.

Cheers Dirk
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Old 02-08-2006, 09:41 AM   #31
Matt Molloy
Dojo: Azami Kai
Location: Edinburgh
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Re: Race

Alright, that's it.

I'm descended of a small lump of primordial slime that got ideas above it's station! Beat that lineage.

Of course there were a few stages in between then and now.

Cheers,

Matt.

100% Mongrel

Last edited by Matt Molloy : 02-08-2006 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 02-08-2006, 12:06 PM   #32
Lorien Lowe
Dojo: Northcoast Aikido
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Re: Race

One of the pediatricians at work had a case a couple of years back where a a baby was born with sickle-cell anemia from two blond, blue-eyed parents. Neither knew of any ancestry other than 'white,' but it was there none the less.

We're all mutts, if we look far enough back.

-LK
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Old 02-08-2006, 12:41 PM   #33
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: Race

Hi James T,

I got that the method was being questioned, and you have every right to question it. I also have every right to ignore the question, give an answer you don't like, or whatever. Some times one lump of sugar is good, some times two...sometimes you just get the lump, no sugar. 'James' got the lump. I don't feel bad about it at all. I simply disagree on what was called for, and don't buy your arguements to the contrary. End of story, as far as I'm concerned.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 02-08-2006, 11:10 PM   #34
Counsel
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Re: Race

Ron:

I'm laughing but that is okay...

I'm just thinking Aikido is a little more than handing out 'lumps.'

I didn't get a lump, but we agree on something -- you are welcome to your opinion.

I just wonder why I sense you are upset about the issue. Why so short?



Naw, forget it... I'll just take my lump.



C
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Old 02-08-2006, 11:41 PM   #35
Counsel
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Re: Race

Quote:
James Taylor wrote:
Ron:
I'll just take my lump.
I thought about the post for a while. Let me address it, hopefully, in a better manner.....

I laughed after reading your post. Your opinion is yours, mine is mine. If I may ask a questions, "Why did I get a lump?"

We do agree on something -- everyone is welcome to their own opinion.

I get the feeling (through your use of words) that you are upset about the issue. And yes, it is okay to be upset.

I'm just thinking Aikido is a little more than handing out 'lumps.' To me, it is about understanding techniques and when to use them. It is about understanding and not allowing 'your opponent' to control your actions..

If you'll note, my reply did say "each situation needs to be dealt with 'on its own.'" You know, sometimes you need to give a lump... Perhaps you just glanced over that statement or feel very strongly on the issue...

Is there a reason your reply is worded quite like it is or is that just your personality. The only reason I left the previous statement in here was to show you how a response can make someone 'want to listen' to what you have to say or 'not want to listen' to what you have to say...

Perhaps you don't care if 'someone' listens... I can understand that, but (you know it was coming didn't you?) if you don't care, why do you hand out lumps in the first place?

I think we can agree, we don't need to be upset because someone disagrees with us or is pointing out a different method or technique. I don't know you so I will phrase it this way, "I looked at your blog and it appears as if you take 'instruction' on the mat seriously." If someone shows you a new twist to an old technique, do you listen or are you short with them? Seems like we can all learn to view things in a different light.

Again...sometimes we have to dish out lumps.

But, maybe we could 'slow down' and only hand out lumps (like getting into fights) when we fail with our attempt to reason and to discuss the issue.

No need to hand out 'lumps' needlessly... But, if you want to, go ahead... I can handle it.

Just my two cents...
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Old 02-09-2006, 08:06 AM   #36
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
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Re: Race

Hi James,

The lump wasn't for you, it was for the psudo 'James', which is why I put his name in quotes. In case you missed it, he wasn't posting under his real name, which is a clear violation of aikiweb rules.

Quote:
I just wonder why I sense you are upset about the issue. Why so short?
I didn't feel that I was short, and I'm not particularly upset (certainly not with you). 'James' (psudo 'James' again) ticked me off for about a minute, and statements like the one he made will always tick me off for about a minute. In the meantime, I go about my life dealing with keiko, a father with alzheimers, a mother with diabetes (and going a little nuts dealing with my father), work, a girlfriend and all the other things in life. So if I get a little short...just chalk it up to a busy life, and a small(?) personality disorder .

The fact is, sometimes I cut people A LOT of slack over "racial" / "background" issues. Pretty much every day...that just goes with being a minority here in the states.

So please don't think I'm upset with you or anyone who disagrees with me just because they disagree. To me, that seems like an attempt to blame me for 'James''s ignorance...attempting to phrase the problem in a way that draws attention to the one highlighting the issue...rather than dealing with the ignorance itself.

Best,
Ron (hope this post was 'long' enough)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 02-09-2006, 08:09 AM   #37
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: Race

Oh, as far as 'your' aikido...nothing wrong with that. Please understand though...others might look at it little differently, and I tend to choose my teachers carefully, as I said in an earlier post.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 02-09-2006, 11:05 AM   #38
Counsel
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Re: Race

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Hi James,

...(hope this post was 'long' enough)
Not nearly long enough for the assumption I made...

My apologies...

Sometimes 'God' reaches down and just touches us on the shoulder to remind us ...

This time, I get to thank you for the reminder. Sometimes I just need to reflect (think) before posting (acting). Don't we all...

As to 'race'... Some truths are self-evident as I have said before.

Counsel

Last edited by Counsel : 02-09-2006 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:18 PM   #39
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: Race

No worries. Have a nice day.

Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 02-10-2006, 07:39 PM   #40
James Smithe
 
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Re: Race

Ron what race are you? I have to confirm something.
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Old 02-10-2006, 08:04 PM   #41
Edwin Neal
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Re: Race

now that is an irimi...

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-13-2006, 07:39 AM   #42
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Race

Mario, what race are you? I take it that this is 'James' back on the board again. If so, welcome back...hope you've learned something.

I am African American, sometimes called Black. Gotta lotta stuff floating around in my private gene pool though...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 02-13-2006, 08:08 AM   #43
Mark Freeman
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Re: Race

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
I am African American, sometimes called Black. Gotta lotta stuff floating around in my private gene pool though...
Not quite so private now Ron

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 02-13-2006, 09:38 AM   #44
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Race

Ooops, was that too much information?

One grandmother had blue eyes, one great grandfather had two families...one black the other white. Go figure... A lot of Native American blood on both sides as well.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 02-13-2006, 11:48 AM   #45
Mark Freeman
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Re: Race

[quote=Ron Tisdale]One grandmother had blue eyes, one great grandfather had two families...one black the other white. Go figure... A lot of Native American blood on both sides as well. /QUOTE]

Ron, I bet if you looked at you genes under a microscope you'd probably see a rainbow!

Cheers
Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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