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Old 01-19-2006, 12:05 PM   #1
ccain85
Dojo: Chicago Aikikai
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aikido and qigong

today i practiced my qigong exercises for the first time since the beginning of december or so. when i first started training in qigong i really felt it complemented my aikido so well; better relaxation, awareness, etc. but this morning was quite the opposite. like i said, first time i have done it in a while. i basically had to force myself to do it and then, while practicing the standing meditation, it felt as if my body just locked up. not the whole thing, mainly my shoulders, which i can NEVER get the tension out of, and my upper back. i also noticed too that after i was "finished", my arms and legs were somewhat trembling, like i had just lifted alot of weight. why cant i relax these days,lol. does anyone else have any experience with qigong or anything similar?
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Old 01-19-2006, 01:00 PM   #2
ccain85
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Re: aikido and qigong

nobody?
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Old 01-19-2006, 03:15 PM   #3
tedehara
 
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Re: aikido and qigong

If an athlete stopped training for a month, they would be unrealistic to believe that they should perform as good as when they quit.

Like anything else, relaxation takes practice.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
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Old 01-19-2006, 03:45 PM   #4
BWells
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Re: aikido and qigong

This sound familar. I've been doing post standing meditation (zhan zhuang) for about 3 years now. Sometimes I feel wonderful, sometimes I all the tension in my body and sometimes I feel nothing. What I notice is over time I feel wonderful more often than I feel tension. Still feel nothing more than either but less than before.

Also, it is only in the past 6 months or so that I am really starting to feel the impact of this practice moving into my Aikido. It may help some that I'm also practicing Xing Yi so the impacts get kind of mixed up. Anyway I think these are long term disciplines and you have to give yourself time.

Good luck with your practice.

Bruce
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Old 01-20-2006, 08:57 AM   #5
SeiserL
 
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Re: aikido and qigong

IMHO, while I am a huge advocate of cross training, qigong and aikido are two different arts and thus don't always complement each other.

Anytime you lay off of anything, you cannot just start where you left it. Relax, breathe, and enjoy your training.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 01-20-2006, 09:24 AM   #6
roosvelt
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Re: aikido and qigong

[quote=Lynn Seiser]IMHO, while I am a huge advocate of cross training, qigong and aikido are two different arts and thus don't always complement each other.

[quote]

I strongly disagree.

What do you think O'sensei's daily omoto ritual? His practice of calligraphy? His tea ceremony?

Do you know that the "qi" in qigong is the same as "ki" in "aiki" in Kanji?

Don't want to start another thread of Japapnese ki and Chinese qi again. But when most of our solo breathing excercise are form of qiqong, you say "qigong and aikido are two different arts and thus don't always complement each other", just make you wonder how many qualified aikido instructor out there?
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Old 01-20-2006, 09:38 AM   #7
happysod
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Re: aikido and qigong

Quote:
just make you wonder how many qualified aikido instructor out there
Unlike Lynn, I definitely resemble this remark - done both and didn't always find an easy (or any) translation between the two. Now while this was almost certainly because of my own ineptness in understanding (either aikido or qigong) I find your view that to be "qualified aikido instructor" you should also "understand" qigong rather bizarre. I could understand an appreciation of the surface similarities...

As regards the original query, I'm with you on the trembling, but I'd add my own bugger my back aches and a small where's the blood gone from my [insert extremity here]
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Old 01-20-2006, 09:38 AM   #8
Dazzler
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Re: aikido and qigong

Quote:
Roosvelt Freeman wrote:
[just make you wonder how many qualified aikido instructor out there?
Why does it make you wonder that?

Just because Lynn Seiser thinks the 2 don't always complement each other?

I'll be first 2 admit personally I know little to nothing of Qigong or of Omotokyo and tea rituals other than they exist.

That in no way has any impact on MY aikido at all.

If its significant for YOUR aikido then I'm pleased for you.

However in the wider scheme of things I can't see it reflecting the general qualifications of Aikido instructors one iota.

They are just rituals.

D
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Old 01-20-2006, 10:14 AM   #9
BWells
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Re: aikido and qigong

QiGong is nothing more than a set of exercises or tools to work with breath and energy. There are literally hundreds of QiGong sets from iron shirt which is used mostly as I understand it in the harder forms of Shaolin martial arts styles to wild goose which is more big open movements to various forms of post standing (wuji, zhan zhuang, San Ti ).

The post standing is to make you aware of your structure, how you stand, where you have tightness in your body and how energy flows to the ground. (along with many or benefits) From this, besides the meditative aspects you learn to hold yourself much more relaxed and with much better alignment with gravity. My two cents is that a tool to help you be more relaxed and aligned would benefit anyones Aikido, has mine.

take care
Bruce
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Old 01-20-2006, 10:27 AM   #10
Dazzler
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Re: aikido and qigong

Fair enough.

I'm hoping that Aikido makes me more relaxed and aligned.

When I chose to cross train i picked something that for me offered some things my aikido lacked.

In my case it was jujitsu.

Not everyones aikido is the same so what was right for me may not be right for everyone.

I'm certainly not disputing whether or not Qigong is a suitable complement for others ...my issue was in the assumption regarding instructor qualifications...Ian Hurst could have saved me the trouble if he'd been a bit quicker on the save button !

Cheers

D
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Old 01-20-2006, 11:36 AM   #11
happysod
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Re: aikido and qigong

Sorry Darren, that's me all over - day late, a dollar short (and a strange feeling that there's a starling out to get me)
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Old 01-20-2006, 11:43 PM   #12
PeterR
 
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Re: aikido and qigong

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote:
However in the wider scheme of things I can't see it reflecting the general qualifications of Aikido instructors one iota.
One wonders where these opinions come from. Read his blog.
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/blog.p...journal&j=7034

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 01-21-2006, 07:42 AM   #13
Gustaf Rydevik
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Re: aikido and qigong

I was browsing through a list of seminars the other day,looking for which will be offered in Sweden this spring.
I came up on one offered by acertain Sugawara Sensei (7th dan). Apparently, he's been introducing qigong/taichiquan in his aikido for a while. Sounds interesting, and if I have time I'll definitely check him out. It seems as if there are some that believe the two DO mix :-).

ps: his homepage seems to be http://www.sugawarabudo.com/
He seems to be travelling to the US as well, so you might bbe able to see what he's doing for yourself.
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Old 01-21-2006, 07:54 AM   #14
Mat Hill
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Many ways to breathe.

Quote:
Roosvelt Freeman wrote:
Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
IMHO, while I am a huge advocate of cross training, qigong and aikido are two different arts and thus don't always complement each other.
I strongly disagree.
You strongly disagree on Lynn Seiser saying something 'doesn't always complement each other'?

So you're saying they always complement each other? So presumably you've tried a large cross-section of the many many different chikung traditions and exercises and aiki styles?

There are literally hundreds of different chikungs. Some of them complement aiki, some of them don't and some of them would probably even hinder aiki. Do some research before you start mouthing off.
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Old 01-21-2006, 03:43 PM   #15
Gustaf Rydevik
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Re: aikido and qigong

Hi again!

Just looked a bit closer, and it seems as if Sugawara sensei have connections to chicago. At least he was having a seminar there 2005, so you might be able to make contact with a aikido shihan using doing the same thing you do, i.e mixing chinese martial arts and aikido.
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Old 01-21-2006, 06:33 PM   #16
eyrie
 
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Re: aikido and qigong

Granted there are different qigong methods for different purposes, but I think the implication of what we're talking about is (neidan) martial qigong, within this context. Personally, I don't see how that sort of qigong could contradict aiki training. Unless the detractors here wish to clarify why they think it is not complementary and in what way it is not complementary.

Ignatius
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Old 01-22-2006, 04:10 AM   #17
PeterR
 
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Re: aikido and qigong

Tetsutaka Sugawara wrote the first Aikido book I managed to wade through.

Aikido and Chinese Martial Arts - Volume 1

He makes some interesting connections but even then I found it a bit reachy - especially with regards to the historical section. It did spur me on to some further reading.

He apparently introduced Aikido to post-revolutionary China.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 01-22-2006, 03:10 PM   #18
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Re: aikido and qigong

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
Unless the detractors here wish to clarify why they think it is not complementary and in what way it is not complementary.
As one identified as a "detractor" I guess, after qualifying my support of cross-training, all I said was that qigong does not "always" necessarily complement Aikido.

IMHO, supported by sport psychology and motor development and learning, while there is some cross over benefits, most skills and activity of motor specific. Meaning to get better at Aikido, do Aikido. To get better at Qigong, do Qigong.

Though apples and oranges both are round and come from trees, they are different things.

Is that being a "detractor"?

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 01-22-2006, 04:12 PM   #19
eyrie
 
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Re: aikido and qigong

You still haven't stated why you think qigong doesn't *always* complement aikido....

They may be different fruit, just as a different approach to ki development may bear different fruit, but are they complementary? Supplementary? Diametrically opposed?

Ignatius
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Old 01-22-2006, 07:05 PM   #20
SeiserL
 
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Re: aikido and qigong

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
You still haven't stated why you think qigong doesn't *always* complement aikido....
IMHO, Yes I did. I stated that because of state specific learning they don't "always" generalize. Also, I never believe in universal qualifiers like "always", never.

My, some of you sure read a lot more into a different perspective, a lot more than I intended.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 01-23-2006, 10:51 AM   #21
roosvelt
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Re: aikido and qigong

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:

Though apples and oranges both are round and come from trees, they are different things.

Is that being a "detractor"?
Is this another "Japanese Ki", "Chinese Chi", apples and oranges arguement without any reasoning?

The training goal of "qigong" is to develop "Chi/Ki". How is it a "detractor"?
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Old 01-23-2006, 01:53 PM   #22
SeiserL
 
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Re: aikido and qigong

Quote:
Roosvelt Freeman wrote:
Is this another "Japanese Ki", "Chinese Chi", apples and oranges arguement without any reasoning?

The training goal of "qigong" is to develop "Chi/Ki". How is it a "detractor"?
Without reasoning? Simple because my reasoning doesn't match yours? I have my reasons. Some just don't agree. That's okay with me.

It is not necessarily the "develop" of chi/ki that I find different, its in the technical application.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 01-23-2006, 01:57 PM   #23
roosvelt
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Re: aikido and qigong

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
Without reasoning? Simple because my reasoning doesn't match yours? I have my reasons. Some just don't agree. That's okay with me.

It is not necessarily the "develop" of chi/ki that I find different, its in the technical application.
Please educate me about the different technical application. I can't find them in your previous postings.
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