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Old 12-06-2005, 07:24 PM   #26
Derek Gaudet
 
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Re: fat bokken

Check a few post up. One way of looking at the word "to" is sword.... as in "bokuto" Wood sword, or "koto", old sword.

Kind Regards,
Derek Gaudet
Goshin Aikido
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Old 12-07-2005, 10:19 AM   #27
JohnSeavitt
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Re: fat bokken

Quote:
Angel Alcantar wrote:
does "to" mean ...
"to" is one rendering of "sword", as seen in "nihonto" (sword of japanese manufacture or style), "iaito" (sword for iai), and "suburito" (yeah, well, you get the idea).


Jun -

Is your reading of "su" as "bare" literal? I somehow had the impression it was along the lines of "element" or (not so well) "fundamental" or thereabouts. Regardless, I like "bare" a lot for conveying the idea.

John

oops. I am being redundant with the "to" business.
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Old 12-08-2005, 08:38 AM   #28
akiy
 
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Re: fat bokken

Hi John,

I'd say that translating "su" as "bare" is more literal than metaphorical, although with a symbolic language such as Japanese, it's sometimes difficult to draw the line. But, for example, a term such as "sude" ("su" + "te" as in "katate"), the "su" indicates that the hand is "bare" as in "not holding anything." Hope that helps...

-- Jun

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Old 12-08-2005, 09:25 AM   #29
Josh Reyer
 
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Re: fat bokken

Also, suhada, "bare skin", sugao "face without make-up", suashi "bare feet", suatama "bare head". 

The Koujien dictionary defines suburi as 鍛錬や練習のため、刀・バット・ラケットなどを、実際のときのように振ること。Tanren ya renshuu no tame, katana batto raketto nado wo, jissai no toki no you ni furu koto. "the act of swinging a katana, bat, racket, etc. as when really using it, for the purpose of training or practice."

The Daijirin dictionary (2nd ed.) defines it as 刀・木刀・バットなどを、練習のために空(くう)で振ること。Katana bokuto batto nado wo, renshuu no tame ni kuu de furu koto. "the act of swinging a katana, bokuto, bat, etc. through the air for practice."

Note that this is distinct from 空振り karaburi, which is swinging something through the air because you missed.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
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Old 12-11-2005, 10:30 PM   #30
sithknight
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Re: fat bokken

whats koujien?, and daijirin????????????
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:39 PM   #31
Matthew White
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Re: fat bokken

Why do 200 cuts, when 40 does the same job? Because only doing 40 cuts with a heavier weapon will only build your muscles. 200 cuts builds muscle memory, perfects your hasuji. If all you're worried about is how hard you can swing, hitting the free weights is much more practical than swinging a heavier piece of wood.
IMHO, either swing your standard bokuto 200 times, or swing your suburito 200 times... but it's repetition that will improve your training... sorry, no shortcuts.
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Old 12-16-2005, 03:31 AM   #32
Michael Cardwell
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Re: fat bokken

Quote:
Tim Gerrard wrote:
Yep the 'soul edge' is still alive and kicking. Nearly did my back in for the first couple of weeks. I'll try and find a photo for you guys.....
Soul Edge? Tell me you didn't make a copy of Knightmare's sword from soul caliber 2 did you? If so you have got to find of photo of it and post it.
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Old 12-16-2005, 04:45 PM   #33
sithknight
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Re: fat bokken

????????
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Old 12-17-2005, 01:14 PM   #34
Mark Uttech
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Re: fat bokken

Onegaishimasu. I think it needs to be repeated that training with heavy weapons causes calcium buildups on the wrists.

In gassho
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Old 12-19-2005, 08:42 PM   #35
Ryan Bigelow
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Re: fat bokken

Another aside, when practicing for my shodan in Kendo I was told to stay from using heavier bokken until my form improved because there is a tendency to use strength and "power" your way through a swing with a suburito. Of course my aikido teacher is always yelling at me for using too much power so this particular advice may apply to me alone, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Good training
Ryan
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Old 12-20-2005, 08:20 AM   #36
Michael Cardwell
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Re: fat bokken

Is this heavy enough? This is the only sword that I know of called soul edge, I just can't believe someone would make a copy of it.
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Old 12-21-2005, 07:13 AM   #37
Mat Hill
Dojo: Kaminari Shooto Dojo
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Re: fat bokken

Quote:
Mark Uttech wrote:
I think it needs to be repeated that training with heavy weapons causes calcium buildups on the wrists.
Useful advice... but how would one recognise these buildups?

Incidentally, everyone's body make-up will be different so maybe it's less of a problem for some people. I've done literally thousands of suburi with both heavy suburito and poles and touch wood, no probs yet... as far as I know... which brings me back to my question!

BTW, I was told the same as Ryan, and also because it can pull your body out of the line of the correct structure and cause overcompensation if you're not 'programmed' to it, which will cause repetitive strain.

Matthew White or anyone else, what's 'hasuji'?
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Old 12-21-2005, 10:12 AM   #38
Derek Gaudet
 
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Re: fat bokken

Hasuji is the angle at which the Blade engages it's target. I.E. if you are doing kesa Giri than you want your blade at roughly 45 degrees, and if you are cutting at a 45, but your blade is actually at a different angel, then that would qualify as bad hasuji. Some blades can take bad hasuji, but only a few degrees off, others will bend, break, chip, whatever with bad hasuji. In the end Hasuji is the angle the blade advances on the target.

Kind Regards,
Derek Gaudet
Goshin Aikido
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Old 12-21-2005, 12:21 PM   #39
Josh Reyer
 
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Re: fat bokken

Quote:
Angel Alcantar wrote:
whats koujien?, and daijirin????????????
The two best single-volume Japanese dictionaries. Comparable to Webster and Oxford (in their single-volume versions).

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
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Old 12-22-2005, 02:44 AM   #40
Mark Uttech
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Re: fat bokken

Trust me Matt, if you have a calcium buildup, you will see a bony lump on the outside of your wrist. I used to have a couple of them, one was about the size of a quarter. But by using lighter weapons and massaging the buildup, it went away over time.
In gassho
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Old 12-26-2005, 10:14 AM   #41
Ed Shockley
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Re: fat bokken

I use a heavy bokken (except for Nishio practice) but when I do use a suburito I like to do slow cuts concentrating on form. Does that reduce, remove or increase the possibility of "calcium build ups?" Also, are they caused by the weight or by the form of the cutting motion?
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Old 12-27-2005, 07:00 AM   #42
Mat Hill
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Hasuji/calcium buildup.

Thanks for the description Derek, I wonder why I hadn't heard that expression before - I'll have to ask my sensei.

And thanks Mark: I wasn't doubting you btw, just wondering. I seem to have escaped them so far!
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Old 12-27-2005, 07:16 AM   #43
Mark Uttech
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Re: fat bokken

Ed, I think the calcium buildups are caused by the weight, since I have been using lighter weapons I never had a return of the problem. I first noticed the problem when I was using a 6' crow or pry bar to practice jo. In gassho
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Old 12-29-2005, 05:22 AM   #44
rorenshi
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Re: fat bokken

I reckon its a Tanren Bokken, its heavier than a normal bokken and designed to strengthen the arms and torso. The tanren bit is just the jujutsu school the bokken came from. I think our normal bokken are Kito-ryu, or that might be what judo is based on...hmm.
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Old 01-04-2006, 01:33 PM   #45
sithknight
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Re: fat bokken

i am so lost -_-, does it only build it up in the wrist or does it also build the muscle up somewere?
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Old 01-10-2006, 07:01 AM   #46
James Smithe
 
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Re: fat bokken

How many cuts are you suppose to do with the subirito?
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Old 01-17-2006, 11:33 AM   #47
rottunpunk
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Re: fat bokken

heavy suburi bokken, are simply used as a quick way to build up mscle but tire the arms out at the same time.

i have a girly one made for me as normal ones are too big

personally, as i do iai, i prefer to practice suburi with a lighter bokken as all the power should come from hara not arms and shoulders.

the calcium build up point is a good one.

stick to your normal bokkto unless you know how to cut properly in the first place

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Old 01-18-2006, 02:09 AM   #48
raul rodrigo
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Re: fat bokken

Quote:
Deborah Bell wrote:
heavy suburi bokken, are simply used as a quick way to build up mscle but tire the arms out at the same time.

personally, as i do iai, i prefer to practice suburi with a lighter bokken as all the power should come from hara not arms and shoulders.

Actually, my first sensei insisted that we use heavy bokken precisely so that we would learn to use the hara to lift the sword, not the muscular strength of the arms. We would do hundreds of cuts (say, 600 or so, 300 on each side) until you were so tired that you were forced to find another way to lift the sword. Eventually I learned just how it was done, and my kokyu has really benefited.

We don't use the heavy bokken any more, because our shihan wants us to learn the more subtle ken movements that you can't do with a big bokken. But it was invaluable as a training aid in its time.


R
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Old 01-18-2006, 08:27 AM   #49
jxa127
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Re: fat bokken

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote:
Since you train in Pat Hendricks dojo i would guess that a suburito is not what your looking for. Rather a "Iwama style bokken", a little thicker than the ordinary ones and with a blunt tip. They can be used for both suburi, tanren and partner practice.
Something like this http://aikido.tozando.com/abwo.html
Those are the ones that we use at our dojo. They're a bit heavier than other white oak bokken that I've used, but quite a bit lighter than the suburito we have on the dojo wall.

Regards,

-Drew

----
-Drew Ames
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Old 01-19-2006, 02:32 AM   #50
Dave Fryers
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Re: fat bokken

Is the Calcium build up point valid? Any evidence that the use of a heavy bokken does cause it? If so there should also be lots of weight trainers / lifters with lots of Calcium build up, shouldn't there? Perhaps it's thought there might be a possibility of this in some people, and this thought has evolved to be accepted wisdom?
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