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Old 11-04-2002, 10:57 AM   #26
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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The thing that bugs me is that "confidence in rolling" doesn't seem to transfer. I can do all the standard ukemi quite nicely, but an "air fall" or jumping over objects still freezes me up.

Not the fall, mind you, the sudden sharp impact at the end ;-)
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Old 11-04-2002, 11:04 AM   #27
Wormwood
 
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Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich (bob_stra) wrote:
The thing that bugs me is that "confidence in rolling" doesn't seem to transfer. I can do all the standard ukemi quite nicely, but an "air fall" or jumping over objects still freezes me up.

Not the fall, mind you, the sudden sharp impact at the end ;-)
Jumping over objects still bugs me too. It isn't the fall that bugs me, it's the whole 'Catching-my-feet-on-object-and-doing-a-face-plant' thing that discourages me.

Nathan
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Old 11-04-2002, 12:14 PM   #28
Kat.C
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Well I don't know what my problem is, I just can't roll. I used to be afraid to fall but I've pretty much gotten over that just by doing it so much. I started aikido in April and I still can't roll, it's starting to get very frustrating, any more advice out there?

Kat

I find the aquisition of knowledge to be relatively easy, it is the application that is so difficult.
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Old 11-04-2002, 12:36 PM   #29
akiy
 
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Quote:
Kathryn Cole (Kat.C) wrote:
Well I don't know what my problem is, I just can't roll. I used to be afraid to fall but I've pretty much gotten over that just by doing it so much. I started aikido in April and I still can't roll, it's starting to get very frustrating, any more advice out there?
It's awfully difficult to "diagnose" things like a forward roll without seeing it. Have you asked your instructor or one of the more experienced folks at your dojo to watch you roll and comment?

Also, I'm not too sure if you do this, but working on the rolls themselves before and after class at your own pace is often productive as well. Even if you're just doing them in "baby steps" manner (eg from a kneeling position), doing them in such a fashion I think is better than not doing them at all...

-- Jun

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Old 11-04-2002, 01:02 PM   #30
Kat.C
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Quote:
Jun Akiyama (akiy) wrote:
It's awfully difficult to "diagnose" things like a forward roll without seeing it. Have you asked your instructor or one of the more experienced folks at your dojo to watch you roll and comment?

Also, I'm not too sure if you do this, but working on the rolls themselves before and after class at your own pace is often productive as well. Even if you're just doing them in "baby steps" manner (eg from a kneeling position), doing them in such a fashion I think is better than not doing them at all...

-- Jun
I have practised rolling on my own after class a few times, and one of my seniors was helping me one time and she said that I wasn't getting round enough,she helped me and appparently I did a few rolls fairly decently. That is the only time I've managed that though. My rolls feel too bumpy and they don't go straight. Another senior told me that I was rolling on my back instead of diagonally. I just can't seem to make my body do what I want it too. Backward rolls are a problem too, but part of tht is that I still get quite disoriented and dizzy. One class I started feeling quite naseous, I eventually realized that I was forgetting to breathe. I don't know how I managed that. Oh and I am rolling with my back knee on the ground, I've only ever done a few rolls standing and that was during a seminar when I got thrown! I've hurt my shoulders(not badly) rolling from a kneeling position so I don't want to do them standing until I can do them right from kneeling. Another senior told me that I was letting my arm collapse, which I'm not, it just happens I don't let it, and that part of my problem was a lack of confidence. Kind of hard to be confident until you can do it right

Last edited by Kat.C : 11-04-2002 at 01:09 PM.

Kat

I find the aquisition of knowledge to be relatively easy, it is the application that is so difficult.
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Old 11-04-2002, 03:23 PM   #31
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Quote:
Kathryn Cole (Kat.C) wrote:
I have practised rolling on my own after class a few times, and one of my seniors was helping me one time and she said that I wasn't getting round enough,she helped me and appparently I did a few rolls fairly decently. That is the only time I've managed that though.
Then the rounded thing should be the next piece in your jigsaw puzzle, don't you think? One thing about backward rolls that I have sometimes noticed is that when beginners think about rolling backwards, they start by letting the entire body fall backwards which means it is pretty straight. Making your body round, you can actually lean a little forward before rolling backwards. Might sound weird, but is no contradiction at all.

But actually, if one specific sempai has ideas that work for you, then I'd say grab her. If she actually helped you when others could not, she should be proud of her teching skills! so don't be afraid to ask.
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Old 11-05-2002, 07:20 AM   #32
Kat.C
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Quote:
Hanna Björk (Hanna B) wrote:
Then the rounded thing should be the next piece in your jigsaw puzzle, don't you think? One thing about backward rolls that I have sometimes noticed is that when beginners think about rolling backwards, they start by letting the entire body fall backwards which means it is pretty straight. Making your body round, you can actually lean a little forward before rolling backwards. Might sound weird, but is no contradiction at all.

But actually, if one specific sempai has ideas that work for you, then I'd say grab her. If she actually helped you when others could not, she should be proud of her teching skills! so don't be afraid to ask.
Unfortunately this senior is out of commision for a bit but her tips must have finally stuck in my head and permeated into my body as last night I finally did front rolls from standing, on my left side at least and did them right, well relatively right. I still can't roll properly on my right side, but that is because I had pain in that shoulder on and off for three years and I'm leery about hurting it again so I can't relax enough and I worry my arm will collapse, so of course it does. My main problem with rolling, actually with any aspect of aikido, is that I can understand what it is I'm supposed to do but I can't seem to get my body to cooperate What I really need is a way to coordinate my mind and body, to get them working together.

Kat

I find the aquisition of knowledge to be relatively easy, it is the application that is so difficult.
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Old 11-26-2005, 03:49 AM   #33
doronin
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Re: Forward roll

Well, about three years passed from the last post in this thread.
I'd be really curious to hear those people how did they eventually overcame those rolling problems. What exactly helped you?
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Old 11-26-2005, 10:46 AM   #34
Shannymara
 
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Re: Forward roll

I was doing okay with forward rolls until I did one in a field, got nervous in the middle and landed on my shoulder. Ever since then I'm struggling to commit, and of course that is causing problems. I either hesitate and land on my shoulder again, or I don't touch the mat until my back hits in an unconscious effort to protect my shoulder. I'm certain it's mainly my mind (fear, hesitation) getting in the way. This is making me self conscious about it at practice, which only adds to the problem. I think what I need to do is go in to the dojo when nobody else is there and just work on my rolls for an hour or two. I've been meaning to do this for a couple of weeks, but life (travel, taking care of toddler, etc.) has gotten in the way. Hopefully I'll get around to it this weekend - maybe even today!

Thanks for the suggestions in this thread so far. I'm going to try to think of this as something I've never done before and give some of them a try. I'll let y'all know if I make any progress!
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Old 11-26-2005, 02:51 PM   #35
Mark Uttech
Dojo: Yoshin-ji Aikido of Marshall
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Re: Forward roll

At the Marshall dojo, which is not too far from Milwaukee, we show you how monkeys do it.
In gassho
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Old 11-27-2005, 02:12 AM   #36
doronin
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Wink Re: Forward roll

Must be easy... Monkeys have longer hands, and for some reason it's easier to them to round their back. I'm ain't monkey though...
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Old 11-27-2005, 05:48 AM   #37
Mark Uttech
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Re: Forward roll

Actually, monkeys are just being monkeys. But like humans, they too, are (Ruten Sangai Chu), "tossing and tumbling in the three worlds of delusion."
In gassho.
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Old 11-27-2005, 05:51 PM   #38
MaryKaye
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
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Re: Forward roll

The three-year-old gorilla at the Seattle Zoo does beautiful aikido-style forward rolls. I was going "Ooh! Ooh! Look at that!" and no one could figure out why I was so excited....

My forward rolls were horrible for about five months and improved suddenly. For about another year they were questionable, and even now they are not quite up to my rankmate's (but he is known for his gorgeous ukemi). The insight for me was that starting from sitting or kneeling and going slow and low totally did not work; I started to become proficient when I lost patience with that approach and began doing rolls from standing and from throws. One teacher had me jump up and down in place and then roll, and noted that those were hugely better than my usual ones. I'm still working on being able to roll slowly or from the floor.

I feel safe when thrown, though, and that's what really matters. It's very liberating.

Mary Kaye
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Old 12-15-2005, 11:21 AM   #39
Shannymara
 
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Re: Forward roll

A followup to my previous post on this issue: I have become comfortable doing rolls over my right shoulder again! I tried thinking of it as placing my shoulder on the floor and rolling from there per advice here (thank you!), and, while the movement was actually the same, somehow that mental focus gave me the confidence to commit to the roll and thus not get hurt. I am still having problems going over the left shoulder, which is definitely a fear thing. About 50% of the time now I do a non-painful, committed roll on the left, the other 50% I'm landing hard on my back in a subconscious effort to protect my shoulder. Fortunately my back doesn't stay sore for long after these bad rolls so I am able to continue training and improving. I have had severe back problems in the past so that was a concern. When thrown by tori I am able to take rolls in either direction without much/any fear. I guess since there's no question of having to commit - I know I'm going down so I just have to roll with it. Very strange the way the mind does these things.
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