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Old 09-11-2001, 08:59 AM   #1
akiy
 
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World Trade Center Attack

11:00am Eastern Time:

Both towers of the World Trade Center in New York have now collapsed and imploded from two planes (the second of which was reportedely a 767) supposedly being hijacked and flown right into them. The Pentagon was also attacked and is now in flames with a plane crashing into it; a portion of the west side of the building has collapsed. The White House has been evacuated. All flights in the US have been grounded by the FAA and all flights in the air now diverted and told to land. Supposedly, another plane has now been hijacked in the air and is now reportedly circling Washington DC. A large plane has crashed reportedly in western Pennsylvania near Pittsburgh.

This is an incredibly horrific situation here, but one thing to keep in mind, folks, is that any of the reports may be exagerrated or even plainly wrong at this time. I think what we all need to do is to remain calm, steady, and centered.

My heart goes out to everyone who has been affected by the events today.

-- Jun

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Old 09-11-2001, 12:10 PM   #2
Kami
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Re: World Trade Center Attack

Quote:
Originally posted by akiy
This is an incredibly horrific situation here, but one thing to keep in mind, folks, is that any of the reports may be exagerrated or even plainly wrong at this time. I think what we all need to do is to remain calm, steady, and centered.
My heart goes out to everyone who has been affected by the events today.
-- Jun
KAMI : My heart goes also to every victim but I agree with you, Jun. We must remain calm and able to see things properly. Everything is confused and manipulation of the facts may be at work.
It seems strange the easy with which 4 planes has been hijacked; the precision of the attacks; the perfect films taken; the immediate mention of the Taliban by the press ("we're not sure, but..."); the immediate mention by the US President of "retaliations"; the commentary that this catastrophe was only possible because of "America's liberty" (Would it be better if some of those liberties were revoked in the name of security?); and some other things, such as a "call for every nation, specially China and Russia (?), to participate in a punitive action against those terrorists"(???).
In short, a real tragedy is possibly being manipulated for other reasons we know nothing about.
That's why I think you are correct. Let's stay centered and cool and try to sort things out as they come.
Sentiments for the victims

Last edited by Kami : 09-11-2001 at 12:13 PM.

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
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Old 09-11-2001, 02:20 PM   #3
Nick
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Yes, and I'm especially glad my teachers were more or less ordered by the principal not to discuss it... obviously a national tragedy and history making events are not as important as an hour of algebra... things like that make me lose faith in the school system...

This whole thing is actually quite frightening... especially having relatives that live and work in New York... condolences go out to the victims and their families... you'll be in my prayers.

Nick

---
Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
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Old 09-11-2001, 04:20 PM   #4
Chocolateuke
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Unhappy

i agree but my teachers where all over it today. it was a tragic event and i hope this kind of thing can me resolved in an aiki manner. also the facts... just keep... iching in my head because we where just bombed by the teachers and television. although it is very very sad event i hope we learn from it in good and bad ways. hopefully the casualty count is not sky high ( althought I would consider 1 person dead really bad). hope to those in the east find comfort soon.

Dallas Adolphsen
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Old 09-11-2001, 09:34 PM   #5
Irony
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I got to class this morning after seeing the second plane crash on TV. Basically my professor said that in light of this it doesn't make sense to discuss the merits of William Blake's poetry. I definately think it should be discussed.

Personally I don't see an aiki solution to this. There are too many possible reprecussions for the USA to avoid a retaliatory strike on... whoever.

I saw on the news that there has already been bombing in Ahfgnistan, claimed by the Northern Rebels. Perhaps they just see this as an excuse to take the government of that country with the full backing of the US Government.

Paranoia and fear is spreading over the whole country. I was in a movie theatre tonight (aikido was cancelled) and the movie was halted due to a suspected fire and the building evacuated. Ever since I was filled with an edgy suspicion that I really don't like feeling.

They're also searching areas of North Florida for suspects. I'm supposed to fly to my parents' house in Atlanta on Friday... but I just don't know...

Chris

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Old 09-12-2001, 02:24 AM   #6
JJF
 
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Unhappy

I was home sick yesterday and surfing the channels when danish national television started to broadcast a signal from CNN with danish comments added, so I watched the second plane crash - I watched the two towers collaps and I saw the close ups of the people jumping. What really scares me is the fact that some people can hate the population of another country so much that they concider it 'right' to do such a terrible thing, and that it probably dosen't matter what kind of retaliation is done - there will allways be someone who is ready to continue this stupid war.

We strive to make this world a better place to live - little by little - step by step - but when things like this happen, it all feels so useless. I hope we can find the strength to carry on the work of showing people the non-violent way of resolving conflicts, when we have had a little time to work through the horror of this incident.

My wife and I cried for the victims and for the relatives and friends - just writing this brings tears to my eyes again. We send our best wishes and condolences to all of you who have suffered from this - whether it be through personal loss or through the terrifying realisation that hate can show it's ugly face amongst us without warning.

All the best whishes

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
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Old 09-12-2001, 06:50 AM   #7
Steve Speicher
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Greetings to everyone here at Aikiweb.
Yesterday was quite a tragic day. Hopefully, today will see a more peaceful world.

I think everyone's suggestions of staying calm and centered are excellent, although rather than cool, maybe we should stay warm.... with compassion.

It would be easy to lash out in anger against those we feel responsible, or against those who are responsible. I believe the important thing is to retaliate with love. Holding those responsible accountable for their actions is indeed necessary, I just hope we can refrain from hating them. Hate has already destroyed so much.

-----------------------------
Steve Speicher
May I ask what is meant by the strong, moving power (hao jan chih chi)? "It
is difficult to describe," Mencius replied. -- Mencius IIA2

403-256 BCE
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Old 09-12-2001, 08:58 AM   #8
AikidoSteve
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How does this nation "blend" in an Aikido approach with the events of yesterday? It seems to me, that it's a little late to be stepping off the line. Do we take the energy or momentum that has and will continue to develop and redirect it back to bin Laden and the country of Afghanistan? Does the USA neutron bomb Afghanistan into a Precambrian existence? And because we will have upset several other nations, do we execute the perfect attention getting atemi such as vaporize the cities of Baghdad, Tripoli, Tehran, Beirut, Damascus, and for good measure Jerusalem? Perhaps for their cheering in the streets, which was broadcast on American TV, the USA employs a wing tip to wing tip carpet bombing of Lebanon as well? Do we as a nation respond in a Mu Shin (without thought) fashion? Some reading this post would agree with my answers - I suspect others would not…

It's an interesting exercise in applying Aikido to real world situations.

Steve Nelson
Confront the enemy with the point of your sword against his face.
-Miyamoto Musashi, "A Book of Five Rings"
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Old 09-12-2001, 10:16 AM   #9
Kami
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A cooling thought

Quote:
Originally posted by AikidoSteve
Does the USA neutron bomb Afghanistan into a Precambrian existence? And because we will have upset several other nations, do we execute the perfect attention getting atemi such as vaporize the cities of Baghdad, Tripoli, Tehran, Beirut, Damascus, and for good measure Jerusalem? Perhaps for their cheering in the streets, which was broadcast on American TV, the USA employs a wing tip to wing tip carpet bombing of Lebanon as well? Do we as a nation respond in a Mu Shin (without thought) fashion?
KAMI : It was said of the Romans that they rode on and where they passed they destroyed everything.
"SOLITUDINEM FACIUNT, PACEM APPELANT"
(They make a desert, that they call Peace)
Food for thoughts
Best

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author

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Old 09-12-2001, 10:51 AM   #10
AikidoSteve
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Yes, but the question is how does one equate the events of yesterday to the practice of Aikido. Some believe that Aikido is a Martial Way.

I'm certain an argument can be made that includes the concept that the USA should never have allowed its self to be put into that position, the "don't walk down that dark alley" analogy. However, what is done, is done and the successful attack has been made - to an Aikidoka that should have been aware of the situation and environment and was not. In Aikido on a personal level, where one is attacked, personally, what is the proper response? And is that the same response that a nation should take. I want to explore that jump from personal to national.

I have seen Aikido posters that state the party line of "Reconciliation of the World". Now here's a chance to consider if such slogans are just rhetoric or actually feasible.

Steve Nelson
Confront the enemy with the point of your sword against his face.
-Miyamoto Musashi, "A Book of Five Rings"
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Old 09-12-2001, 01:58 PM   #11
Kami
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Unhappy AIKIDO PACIFISM...

Quote:
Originally posted by AikidoSteve
I'm certain an argument can be made that includes the concept that the USA should never have allowed its self to be put into that position, the "don't walk down that dark alley" analogy. However, what is done, is done and the successful attack has been made - to an Aikidoka that should have been aware of the situation and environment and was not. In Aikido on a personal level, where one is attacked, personally, what is the proper response? And is that the same response that a nation should take.
KAMI : Good question, Steve! I really don't know, I've had always doubts about Aikido's pacifism. And also my country hasn't been attacked and bombed...
Anyway, the pacifism of a nation has been put to proof by Mahatma Gandhi, in India. He and his followers were beaten, impriosioned, tortured, killed and they never faltered in their pacifism and finally they achieved the liberation of India from British rule.
If we should do that, it's up for a fair long discussion, I think...By the way, i really liked that "walking down that dark alley" analogy.
Best

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author

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Old 09-13-2001, 09:13 AM   #12
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As I'm sure everyone has heard, people have been urged to give blood to help out. I've called the local blood banks and they've said that they're more than swamped right now and for people to wait a couple of days to come in. A doctor friend of mine also brought up the fact that blood banks are now operating at "full" capacity and that blood can only keep for two weeks; she suggests that some people may want to wait a couple of weeks to give blood so that the blood banks aren't totally "empty" in a couple of weeks' time...

-- Jun

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Old 09-13-2001, 11:50 AM   #13
Kami
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Smile THE RIGHT ATITUDE

Quote:
Originally posted by akiy
As I'm sure everyone has heard, people have been urged to give blood to help out. I've called the local blood banks and they've said that they're more than swamped right now and for people to wait a couple of days to come in.
-- Jun
KAMI : Now, that's a very correct atitude and something everyone can do to help solve some problems.
Congratulations to the donors!

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author

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Old 09-13-2001, 01:37 PM   #14
Irony
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Can aikido be applied to nations? I remember the quote, though I can't remember who said it that "A good king cannot be a saint." Does this apply here? Are there necessary evils that we as nations must embrace in order to protect ourselves?

Chris Pasley
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Old 09-14-2001, 10:09 AM   #15
Anne
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Unhappy

I still can't find the words to express my sorrow and shock after this unbelievable attacks. My condolences go to all the victims and their relatives.

I hope that whatever course of action might be taken by the US government, it will not be hasted by hatred and the urge to retaliate. The ones responsible must be found and punished but nobody else. Terrorism has no race or religion. No more innocent victims on any side. Otherwise this may lead to a scenario of strike and counterstrike like the one between Israel and Palestine but on the scale of a world war.

Also, terrorism doesn't stop at borders. What really makes me shiver is that apparently a good deal of the attacks on the US was organized here in Hamburg which is about an hour's drive from where I live.

One more thing. Please be careful about what you read on the internet or see on TV. There is much missinformation going around and many people suddendly are "islam experts" spreading wrong information and hatred. I have some muslim friends and many of their fellow muslims are now afraid of being attacked. This has already happened to some. So, please help your muslim neighbors and colleagues if something like that happens.
They are not the enemy.

yours,
Anne

"You have to do difficult things to grow." (Shoji Nishio Sensei)
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Old 09-14-2001, 10:27 AM   #16
Erik
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I saw this posted elsewhere and it's the first thing I've seen written that even began to address this from a positive perspective. Regrettably, as I understand it, we already offered something like this and it wasn't accepted.

When Jesus gave us (Christians) that advice, it was because THAT is the road to peace. It's little understood that the Biblical admonition "A tooth for a tooth" is a plea for moderation -- make the response proportional to the offense, instead of much worse.

It would be wrong for the U.S. to engage in some massive military engagement for the sake of punishment or revenge. It wouldn't work, either. Every time we drop bombs, we create more orphans, some of whom deal with their loss by becoming martyrs for the cause.

How could we turn the other cheek?

Consider the poor Palestinians. What a pathetic people: whole generations born in poverty, living their lives in refugee camps, with very few opportunities and only faint hope. They are subsidized by the greater Arab community, but at a subsistance level. These people are desperate. The most inspiring cause they can grasp is the destruction of Israel and its allies, with the fall-out we saw earlier this week.

NOW the U.S. is going to spend $40 BILLION (with a B!) dollars on damage repair and terrorist hunting.

What if we spent some of those billions on the Palestinians? What if we created excellent schools, started enterprises, built infrastructure like roads and sewage systems... a Marshall Plan for Palestine?

SUDDENLY we would no longer be The Great Satan. We would be Israel's friend AND the Palestinian's friend. The Islamic support for anti-American terrorism would fade away. We would be safe.

INSTEAD, we'll spend more billions on more planes and more bombs, making the world safe for U.S. defense contractors, and no one else.

Arab children, look to your parents, before we murder them. Please forgive us our sins, when we slaughter your mother and father and sister and brother.

Forgive us for reacting like the typical three-year-old, hitting back because "He hit me first!"

We should take Jesus's advice, and turn the other cheek.

Last edited by Erik : 09-14-2001 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 09-14-2001, 12:30 PM   #17
Irony
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Are we to be the caretakers of the entire world, then? What does the Palistinian Government think about America taking over their country in that way?

Ideals are beautiful, but things are just not that simple. I believe that the group that trained Osama Bin Laden was funded by the USA. Maybe sticking our fingers in isn;t always the best way.

Chris Pasley
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Old 09-14-2001, 03:25 PM   #18
Erik
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irony
Are we to be the caretakers of the entire world, then? What does the Palistinian Government think about America taking over their country in that way?

Ideals are beautiful, but things are just not that simple. I believe that the group that trained Osama Bin Laden was funded by the USA. Maybe sticking our fingers in isn;t always the best way.
Well, I actually agree with some of your points. The Palistinians have already rejected such an offer. Secondly, such a practice could lead to blackmail. Thirdly, it would have made no difference in this case. Assuming it was Bin Laden, he's actually a Saudi and Palistine is only #3 on his list.
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Old 09-14-2001, 04:27 PM   #19
Do1
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WTC terrorism

I'd like to convey my love and deepest sympathies with everyone involved in these horrible horrible acts of violence.

I hope strength can be found for you somewhere.

With love and appreciation,
Donna xxxx

"I see", said the blind man to the deaf man xxx(E.McHale)
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Old 09-15-2001, 02:47 AM   #20
mariko nakamura
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This is a completely unbelievable evil act of violence. I live in Japan now but I'm from New York. My cousins husband worked in the towers and he is currently missing. I cant go home to be with my family because no planes are allowed to enter. My 5 year old daughters birthday present has been returned so she wont receive it on time.
What are we going to do about this? I have my doubts about attacking these people. Something tells me that it might not work. All that money to fight terrorism seems like a big waste. I talked to my parents after this happened. I couldnt believe how mad my mother was. It really shocked me because before I called, all I felt was sadness. When I watched all this happening on the news, I couldnt stop crying. My mom wants to kill people. She wants America to shoot people with missles and guns. Does anybody on this thread feel like this?
I cant justify any retaliation. Thats not the way I want this world to work. We always do this and what happens? More death, more hatred, more tears, more terrorists. I feel if we start bombing somebody elses country, then we also are terrorists. Just from a different perspective. I liked that other quote about using all that money to help these people instead of kill them. Dont you think that would completely piss these terrorists off? If we give them war, were playing their game. This is what Aikido is all about. Taking the negative aggressive energy and manipulating or restoring it to really beautiful positive energy.
I think instead of giving these guys my hate, I'm gonna give them my love. I want to teach them a lesson. I want them to know that what they did or actually how they did this was wrong. There can be nothing positive about creating more violence.
With love,
Mick

Mick
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Old 09-15-2001, 04:43 AM   #21
Kami
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Smile WILL FOR REVENGE

Quote:
Originally posted by mariko nakamura
This is a completely unbelievable evil act of violence. My cousins husband worked in the towers and he is currently missing. I cant go home to be with my family because no planes are allowed to enter. My 5 year old daughters birthday present has been returned so she wont receive it on time.
I cant justify any retaliation. Thats not the way I want this world to work. We always do this and what happens? More death, more hatred, more tears, more terrorists. I feel if we start bombing somebody elses country, then we also are terrorists. Just from a different perspective. If we give them war, were playing their game. This is what Aikido is all about. Taking the negative aggressive energy and manipulating or restoring it to really beautiful positive energy.
There can be nothing positive about creating more violence.
With love,
Mick
KAMI : Let me express my respect and my admiration for you, my friend. You have been touched by violence. You heart is full of pain but, as Kipling said, "you're keeping your head, when all about you, people are losing theirs and blaming it on you".
Congratulations, my friend! It's important, in a highly emotional moment, to keep our emotions in check and try to see clearly. If you want justice, that's all right. Let's find out, with every care, who did it and take a correct course of action. If we lash out in fury ("these bastards and the countries that supposedly help them deserve everything we may do to them!"), you're right, we'd be less than terrorists. With the excuse that "there's no other way", we may go too far and make this world an even worse place to live in.
Violence breeds violence. Only love builds for eternity. You know, I really believe in that.
Peace with you

Last edited by Kami : 09-15-2001 at 04:46 AM.

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Old 09-15-2001, 11:31 AM   #22
L. Camejo
 
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Re: WILL FOR REVENGE

Quote:
Originally posted by Kami
KAMI : It's important, in a highly emotional moment, to keep our emotions in check and try to see clearly. If you want justice, that's all right. Let's find out, with every care, who did it and take a correct course of action. If we lash out in fury ("these bastards and the countries that supposedly help them deserve everything we may do to them!"), you're right, we'd be less than terrorists. With the excuse that "there's no other way", we may go too far and make this world an even worse place to live in.
Violence breeds violence. Only love builds for eternity.
I agree totally. At first I felt the rage increasing within when I saw those planes disappear into the WTC, I could identify with the pain and horror of the victims and those involved and really wished that I had the power to control a few nukes.

But after a few minutes I realised that this negative energy is what created those images on TV and negativity feeds on negativity. It may be very hard to understand for many of us, but if we put ourselves in the lives of those who did the attack, we may at least be able to understand, if not forgive, the reasoning behind the attacks. This is not to say that we should agree with what they have done.

To grow up brainwashed into believing that a country and its way of life is the epitome of all evil and that they are to blame for all your problems, pain and suffering can make almost anyone want to seek retribution if you can see nothing else. Couple that with constant talk about Jihad (Holy War) and believing that you will be sanctified in heaven by dying for the holy cause of destroying this evil, and one can begin to see what went through the heads of those terrorists. In their mind, what they did was attack the greatest evil in the world, a noble cause for them; quite the opposite for us.

In this time I try to utilise the depth of one of O-Sensei's quotes: "True love is INVINCIBLE because it contends with nothing."
A love based response to what has happened will probably yield the best long term solution to this problem, because ANY sort of military response will result in more of the same.

Sad to say, Aiki and unconditional love is not always the way of politics and international affairs most times, especially where there is extreme and heartfelt pain. I just hope that good sense prevails in the end and that those who have to decide remeber that at the end of it all, ALL of us, even te worst of us are part of the SAME Universe.

My condolences to all who have been affected.
L.C.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
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Old 09-15-2001, 01:05 PM   #23
jaeger
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Ki Symbol

I am still shocked by the events of this week. I have no thoughts, except one:

we must never forget.

We may eventually be able to forgive--I stress the "may"--but we must never forget the fact that there are humans out in our world who are able to dehumanize entire groups of fellow human beings enough to kill.

The heroism of all the rescuers involved is something to be especially lauded. I personally know several people who have left my school temporarily, putting their academic careers in jeopardy, to assist with the search and rescue as well as the gruesome task that lies ahead of New York.

I am at a loss for words. The grief that I feel is matched by the anger I hold, which is in turn muted by the shock I am experiencing, which is colored in turn by the grief. I am hollow. Since I am just starting out with Aikido, I hope that it will help me regain my center. If I regain my balance, perhaps I will be able to help the world stand up again from the punishing blow it has dealt itself.

Hate nothing except hate itself.

-Aaron
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Old 09-15-2001, 05:17 PM   #24
Levonicus
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I can't pretend I understand what it must feel like for people affected closely by this tragedy, I have been following it for days now, and still the raw reality is only begining to reach me. We live in a global world, and a global community. The interconectedness of all life seems now as undeniable as the interconectedness of modern human society. This event is profound evendence that what happens to one happens to all. We are all affected.

I've contemplated a great deal over the past few days, and I've had a few thoughts I felt like sharing if anyone here cares to listen.

Our emotional lives exist in harmony with our physical lives. Just as the destruction of an object releases unbelieveable physical energy, similar emotional energy is also released. The magnatude of energy that is moving around and from this event is almost inconcievable, and one can hardly imagine that any person caught in the middle could survive it.

In Aikido we learn to redirect energy, be it physical, or emotional. This is what makes Aikido both a martial and spiritual path.

To train in martial arts is to study conflict. Aikido is managing conflict and using it as a positive force. Just as we extend ki to move normaly antagonistic muscle groups in harmony, we also extend ki to make normaly antagonistic interpersonal relationships harmonious. The concept of relationships may seem more abstract than that of muscles, and countries and societies may seem more abstract than both, but I believe all do exist and are as real as anything else. So it makes sense to believe that Aikido can be applied to international conflicts aswell, because conflict is conflict.

I'd like to know what all of you think, specifically about what people and our countries leaders can do to deal with this situation in a constructive way. For instance, this event has already united so much of the world to a degree I've never seen before. There's a lot of power in that, what will we do with it?

I don't know what will happen next, but whatever does happen, I will contine my training and continue to strugle for a better world. As long as there are those among us striving to make good of this situation, there is hope.
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Old 09-16-2001, 11:09 PM   #25
MaylandL
Location: Western Australia
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 241
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I live on the West Coast of Australia and my wife is a US citizen. We watched in horror and total disbelief of the events unfolding before us.

Yes we do need to remain calm and I do agree with the comments made by others in the previous posts. All have valid comments and thoughts but there must come a time when enough is enough and a line must to drawn to say "NO MORE".

Ueshiba advocated peace and harmony, but we are also warriors with a sense of what is "right" and "good". When such an unspeakable act of cruelty, barbarism and cowardice occurs, it must not be allowed to go unpunished. Those who are responsible, those who aided and abetted and those who protect and harbour them must be brought to account to face the consequences of their actions. They must not be allowed to hurt others in the name of what they believe. They are free to practice what they believe but not at the expense of life.

All people, no matter of race, religion, skin colour or countries, should not allow this to ever happen again. Terrorism and evil of this magnitude must never be allowed to succeed.

On a more personal I would like to add my condolences and sympathies for the people of the United States, especially to those people who have lost friends and loved ones. May you find peace, solace and comfort from the support of others.

Mayland
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