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Old 08-24-2005, 12:45 PM   #26
swchiro
 
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Thank you Brenda Allen, You put it better than I did.... If the subject should come up anywhere..."My country...right or wrong. If right, to stand by it .... if wrong, to change from within." If you are in my dojo or anywhere on this land, you'd better respect my country, you do not have to agree with certain political jive, but must respect it..that's all I ment......yes, sex, politics, religion do not belong in the dojo. We all have different beleifs, that's what balances us as a great nation.....we are ther to train, better ourselves, improve our community, help our fellow classmates.......
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Old 08-24-2005, 01:57 PM   #27
sullivanw
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

ahh yes, facetious... sorry, I can be a bit obtuse at times...
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:37 PM   #28
sullivanw
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

... also, I have run into a lot of people who don't seem to want to evaluate whether they are right of wrong, don't want to look inward and improve, just take the 'my way or the highway' attitude, and it really hits a nerve in me. It seems as if I tend to look for / expect this kind of attitude, and see it where it does not really exist. Lesson to be learned here, huh? So that's that, and to Mr. Summers, if I offended then please accept my apologies.
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Old 08-24-2005, 02:38 PM   #29
Pdella
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Steven Summers wrote:
Thank you Brenda Allen, You put it better than I did.... If the subject should come up anywhere..."My country...right or wrong. If right, to stand by it .... if wrong, to change from within." If you are in my dojo or anywhere on this land, you'd better respect my country, you do not have to agree with certain political jive, but must respect it..that's all I ment......yes, sex, politics, religion do not belong in the dojo. We all have different beleifs, that's what balances us as a great nation.....we are ther to train, better ourselves, improve our community, help our fellow classmates.......
What do you mean I'd better respect "your country"?

You come off pretty vehemently about that. How about an example of disrespect to "your country"?
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Old 08-24-2005, 03:19 PM   #30
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Steven Summers wrote:
If you are in my dojo or anywhere on this land, you'd better respect my country, you do not have to agree with certain political jive, but must respect it..that's all I ment......yes, sex, politics, religion do not belong in the dojo. We all have different beleifs, that's what balances us as a great nation.....we are ther to train, better ourselves, improve our community, help our fellow classmates.......
#1 "Politics do not belong in the dojo"

has the opposite meaning to the declaration,

#2 "you'd better respect my country."

In #1, you state that political sentiment is not a pertinent sentiment to express, no matter what one believes.

In #2, you state--in a thinly veiled threat--that respect of your country is required, to train in your country (and by extension, your dojo).

So, which is it?

As for me, it all comes down to the little red sign hanging on the wall of Aikido West (Frank Doran Sensei's dojo), that unequivocally states:

"Shut Up and Train"

That says it all, for me. How about you, Steven?
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Old 08-24-2005, 03:25 PM   #31
Mashu
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

See what happens.
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Old 08-24-2005, 04:35 PM   #32
akiy
 
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Hi folks,

Please try to stick to the original topic of politics in aikido dojo. If you wish to talk about politics in general, please do so outside of this thread.

Thanks,

-- Jun

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Old 08-25-2005, 12:48 AM   #33
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote:
Hi folks,

Please try to stick to the original topic of politics in aikido dojo. If you wish to talk about politics in general, please do so outside of this thread.

Thanks,

-- Jun
Yes.

And this brings up another point. Of course, Jun is absolutely correct in keeping us on topic. But, it seems to me a very fine line btw discussion of politics, and discussion of politics in the dojo.

Case in point: once, I wore a politically charged T-shirt to the dojo (I won't mention the subject for fear of being "it"). I really wasn't looking for confrontation--it was just something I threw on before I ran off to class. As I was leaving, a fellow doka noticed the subject of my shirt, and immediately began to parse its meaning. Instantly, we were surrounded by about a half dozen ppl, all furiously engaged in the topic. The original commentator turned to me and exclaimed: "See what you did?" "ME?" I exclaimed. The point is: sometimes ppl can't help themselves, in making a comment. And once you externalize your feelings out loud, on comes the deluge--everyone wants to add their 2 cents.

Still, I once trained at a dojo where the Sensei just could not stop talking about his views of the world, usually during warm-up's. Even tho I often agreed with his politics, I found the choice of topic distracting and annoying. In the end, I wished he'd have gone to Doran Sensei's dojo and followed the advice of that little red sign.

Last edited by Neil Mick : 08-25-2005 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 08-25-2005, 01:21 AM   #34
Chad Scott
Dojo: Hombu Aikikai
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

I wholeheartedly agree with the title of this thread. I can only speak for myself, but I think it's great to train side by side here in Japan with people from Britain, France, Germany, U.S., and so on (and of course Japanese) without getting into political debates on and off the mat.

I haven't had any problems with politics in such an international environment, and I hope it stays that way. Here at Aikikai Hombu, everyone seems to be willing to set aside differences and just train.

BTW, I like that motto, "Shut Up and Train."

Last edited by Chad Scott : 08-25-2005 at 01:32 AM.
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Old 08-25-2005, 01:50 AM   #35
xuzen
 
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Jean de Rochefort wrote:
In the dojo, I don't want to know about your religion, politics, kids, wife, dog, fetish, whatever.

I want to know how you throw and get thrown. I want to know how to take your balance and how you take my balance.

After class at the bar, I don't want to know about your religion, politics, kids, wife, dog, fetish, whatever.

I want to know how you think you get thrown and how you think I take a throw. I want to know how you think I took your balance and how you think you took mine.
That is it!... World, meet the first and foremost aikido fetish extraordinaire, the ever fetishly Mr Ron Jon. <chuckles>

Boon.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 08-25-2005, 02:13 AM   #36
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Dan Guthrie wrote:
I thought I'd start a new thread rather than hijack the existing "politics in Aikido practice" thread.

I don't like it when people discuss politics in the dojo. I've learned it's unlikely to help and very likely to cause trouble, just like discussing religion.
I have a pretty good idea what some of my fellow aikidoka's political leanings are. I've tried very hard to keep mine a secret.

Am I the only one who feels this way?



p.s. The first person who divulges their politics in this thread is "it."
I confess that I am somewhat surprised by the thread, The previous thread concerned the political backround of the Founder and I assume that it is politics, like national politics, not aikido 'politics' or dojo 'politics' that you have in mind.

I cannot believe anyone would have the time for political discussions during aikido practice.

I understand Charles Hill's reference to Sasaki Masando, but I think Sasaki Shihan is like some other Hombu shihans who are advancing in age. They talk increasingly and quite often what they talk about has only very tenuous connections to what is being practiced. I suppose they are following in the footsteps of Morihei Ueshiba, who also on occasion gave long discourses during practice, but he thought he was on a heaven-sent mission to bring order to the cosmos. In any case, the Founder talked about aikido, not politics.

Best regards,

P A Goldsbury
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Old 08-25-2005, 08:19 AM   #37
giriasis
Dojo: Sand Drift Aikikai, Cocoa Florida
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

I don't get offended if people wear a t-shirt espousing their views or have a bag or buttons stating policitical point of view. I won't get offended if you have a big yellow ribbon around you neck or an "I support Cindy" tee-shirt either. That is a matter of free speech, and I'm not going to hinder someone's free speech. I don't even get offended if a political discussion might occur off the mat but in the dojo after class, and they do occur from time to time in our dojo but not that often. Most parties invovled in the discussion usually are pretty respectful to each other's points of view and they don't erupt into a heated debate.

Anne Marie Giri
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Old 08-25-2005, 04:20 PM   #38
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Anne Marie Giri wrote:
I won't get offended if you have a big yellow ribbon around you neck or an "I support Cindy" tee-shirt either.
Aha! "Tag," you're "it!" You gave away your bias!

Quote:
That is a matter of free speech, and I'm not going to hinder someone's free speech. I don't even get offended if a political discussion might occur off the mat but in the dojo after class, and they do occur from time to time in our dojo but not that often. Most parties invovled in the discussion usually are pretty respectful to each other's points of view and they don't erupt into a heated debate.
Yes, I agree with you, re the appropos time to discuss politics. I have a particular horror story regarding a Sensei's highly impolite response to my political views, but I have mentioned it before, and I am sure that ppl already know about it...I won't bore you with repetition.

If you haven't heard this story: just ask and I will tell it again (briefly).
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Old 08-25-2005, 04:29 PM   #39
Adam Alexander
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Xu Wenfung wrote:
That is it!... World, meet the first and foremost aikido fetish extraordinaire, the ever fetishly Mr Ron Jon. <chuckles>

Boon.
LOL. That doesn't sound bad, does it?
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Old 08-25-2005, 04:29 PM   #40
mj
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

That kind of 'brief' hasn't been discovered by science yet Neil.

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Old 08-25-2005, 04:58 PM   #41
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Mark Johnston wrote:
That kind of 'brief' hasn't been discovered by science yet Neil.
Ouch! Now, was that called for?? I was trying to be nice, after all...
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Old 08-25-2005, 05:00 PM   #42
mj
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Wow your post count just jumped from 1 to 107.

And people say I don't pay attention.

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Old 08-25-2005, 11:00 PM   #43
dyffcult
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

"Shut up and train."

I love that :-)

My worst fear (well, other than backward rolls) is training with someone who needs words to understand what I am trying to show them by moving their body parts. I bend their elbow...they look at me blank. I wisper, "bend your elbow." I pull their pant leg in the direction their leg should move, they look at me blank. I look around to see if Sensei is watching and wisper, "move through, break my balance."

I hate having to talk in class :-)

Brenda
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Old 08-25-2005, 11:27 PM   #44
ikkitosennomusha
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Re: Politics don't belong in the dojo

Quote:
Dan Guthrie wrote:
I thought I'd start a new thread rather than hijack the existing "politics in Aikido practice" thread.

I don't like it when people discuss politics in the dojo. I've learned it's unlikely to help and very likely to cause trouble, just like discussing religion.
I have a pretty good idea what some of my fellow aikidoka's political leanings are. I've tried very hard to keep mine a secret.

Am I the only one who feels this way?



p.s. The first person who divulges their politics in this thread is "it."

I don't want to beat a dead horse but, much to my dissapointment, the former aikido dojo I trained at was horrible. My sensei, whom I considered my friend and had grown to love and care for, progressively ruined his dojo as a religious affiliation which caused a many of problems. Because I did not agree with the methodology and overall nature of practice, I was ultimately shunned from that dojo and kicked out of AAA. Why? The sensei reported me as disrespecting my superior. To my defense, I explained that prayer was customary during training and AAA protocol was not properly being followed. This is something Toyoda-shihan did not agree with either and had made personal scrutinization against while living but since his passing, the new director has let things slide.

Am I trying to be negative? No! I am only saying that a good friendship was ruined needlesly over religious concepts brought into the dojo. Not only does it make others uncomfortable but not everyone who is religious will share the same views. I am religous but do not agree with what was being conveyed. I still care for and have love for my former sensei although he does not know it and I wish him well.

Having said this, I feel that politics will result in the same fate. The dojo atmosphere has to be neutral of controverseal ideals to provide a place that is conducive to training which is the primary purpose of being present. The discussion of religion and politics should be done in a church, one's home, outside the dojo etc.

Last edited by ikkitosennomusha : 08-25-2005 at 11:35 PM.
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