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Old 07-26-2005, 12:33 PM   #1
petermavrik
Dojo: Tenshinkan Dojo, Chicago
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Join Date: May 2005
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jo kata II; ju-yon? ju-shi?

The other day on the mats, our Sensei was teaching AAA/AAI's jo kata two. Our version has 22 steps. When she got to step 14, she said "ju-shi" which struck me as odd.

My nihongo Sensei taught that ju-yon was the preferred way to say 14. Of course, everyone has a right to do it different, but when we talked about it after class most students (this was a class of kenshusei from various other dojo around the country) used ju-shi for 14.

I'm curious what the tradition is in your dojo? ju-yon? ju-shi?

塵も積もれば山となる
even grains of sand can form a mountain
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Old 07-26-2005, 01:26 PM   #2
Mashu
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Re: jo kata II; ju-yon? ju-shi?

I always go with shi to see if anything bad happens.

Remember, if you ever go to a Japanese resturant and don't finish your rice to leave your chopsticks standing in the left over bit.
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Old 07-26-2005, 08:27 PM   #3
diesel
Dojo: Tenshin
Location: Higashihiroshima
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Re: jo kata II; ju-yon? ju-shi?

'Jyu-yon' (十四) would be most often heard in japan when referring to most things. There maybe some areas that you jyushi.
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Old 07-28-2005, 11:50 AM   #4
Bronson
 
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Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
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Re: jo kata II; ju-yon? ju-shi?

From Jun's article on counting in Japanese.
Quote:
Use "shi" for "four" only in the single digit column. So, you can use "shi" or "yon" in 3654, but use "yon" for 40, 400, 4000, etc.
Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 07-31-2005, 05:36 PM   #5
petermavrik
Dojo: Tenshinkan Dojo, Chicago
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Re: jo kata II; ju-yon? ju-shi?

Thanks for the cross-post Bronson. I learned, as a student of Japanese, to use the yon in the same way.

But I'm more curious what people actually use in their own dojo, instead of the "proper" Japanese way.

Dojo Japanese seems to drift away from real Japanese in unique ways. The differences are really fascinating, hence my question.

塵も積もれば山となる
even grains of sand can form a mountain
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Old 08-03-2005, 10:06 PM   #6
Bronson
 
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Re: jo kata II; ju-yon? ju-shi?

Quote:
Peter Mavrik wrote:
But I'm more curious what people actually use in their own dojo, instead of the "proper" Japanese way.

Dojo Japanese seems to drift away from real Japanese in unique ways. The differences are really fascinating, hence my question.
Ah, sorry about that. You, in fact, clearly stated this in your initial post...I just missed it I guess.

In our dojo we would use ju-shi for fourteen but yondan or yonkyu when refering to grade levels and yonkyo when referring to "4th technique".

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 08-09-2005, 10:36 PM   #7
saltlakeaiki
 
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Dojo: Salt Lake Aikikai
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Re: juu-shi seems a bit archaic

My sense is that juu-shi sounds a bit more archaic or "formal" (very often these things are closely related in any language). It would be odd to say juu-shi in an everyday context, but in the formality of the dojo, where we practice an art based in antiquity, it seems normal enough

Dave

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