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Old 07-11-2005, 02:33 PM   #1
Jory Boling
 
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Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

I recently watched an old clip of Shioda Sensei "grabbing" his uke's toe and causing him to submit.

Is this a technique in Yoshinkan aikido? How is it done?

Thanks!
Jory
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Old 07-11-2005, 02:37 PM   #2
grondahl
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

Is it the one where he puts his bigtoe on the foot of uke?
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Old 07-11-2005, 02:40 PM   #3
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

focus power (if its the one described above).

Best,
Ron

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Old 07-11-2005, 02:59 PM   #4
Jory Boling
 
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

yeah it must be. my wife translated somethign about "focusing the mind."
i already tried to grab her big toe with mine... but that's another story.
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Old 07-11-2005, 03:09 PM   #5
bkedelen
 
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

I believe that Shioda Sensei demonstrated that technique at one of the first friendship demonstrations. It was my sense that he used the ball of his big toe (not the big toe itself) to apply his body weight to a sensitive area on the top of uke's foot (an area slightly below and to the side of the "hump" on the top of the foot). I have worked on this technique for a while and it can cause quite a reaction in some people. Nevertheless, Shioda Sensei's ability to apply consistent pressure in this way for any length of time (not to mention applying it succesfully while lecturing animatidly and gesturing with his hands) demonstrates superb balance and concentration.
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Old 07-11-2005, 03:20 PM   #6
Jory Boling
 
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

have any of you received instruction in the technique or have you just had to practice it from watching Shioda Sensei clips. do you know the origins of the technique?
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Old 07-11-2005, 03:47 PM   #7
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

I don't remember the origins outside of the illustrating an example of focus power. The instruction was from two different former uchideshi of Shioda Sensei, Utada Sensei, and Chida Sensei, I believe.

Best,
Ron

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Old 07-11-2005, 04:12 PM   #8
akiy
 
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

I believe that he is basically digging in his big toe into the space between the metatarsals of the 1st (big toe) and 2nd toes. I could be mistaken, but I think the acupuncture point would be liver 3:

http://www.holisticmasters.com/image...nts/liver3.jpg
http://www.nycacupuncture.com/images/acuppoints/lv3.jpg

-- Jun

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Old 07-11-2005, 04:16 PM   #9
Jory Boling
 
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote:
I believe that he is basically digging in his big toe into the space between the metatarsals of the 1st (big toe) and 2nd toes. I could be mistaken, but I think the acupuncture point would be liver 3:

http://www.holisticmasters.com/image...nts/liver3.jpg
http://www.nycacupuncture.com/images/acuppoints/lv3.jpg

-- Jun
arigatou!
i will try that on my wife as soon as i get home. she's so lucky, ne
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:02 PM   #10
markwalsh
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

Liver 3 - Yeah, it hurts more when you're hungover. Seriously, I used to get Shiatsu on a Sunday morning.
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Old 07-11-2005, 07:58 PM   #11
maikerus
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

We've played with this alot both at hombu and other clubs. Getting the point is not such a big problem, but getting your weight focused and centered so that uke cannot pull out their foot is still eluding me

Hard to believe how well it works. Another fun one to try is yonkajo on the shin and the side of the shin...think of all the nerves there

Osu!

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:51 PM   #12
Kevin Temple
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

They taught that at my dojo one class... more as a side note, and i missed it.... CURSES

We call it Toe-kajo, by the way, and it really hurts when done right
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Old 07-25-2005, 03:54 PM   #13
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

I think I missed that class, too Maybe it works similar to yonkajo (using the underknuckle) on a PP in the foot? Just a theory.
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Old 07-25-2005, 05:24 PM   #14
Don_Modesto
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
Getting the point is not such a big problem, but getting your weight focused and centered so that uke cannot pull out their foot is still eluding me.
If it was your teacher at an international demonstration, would you frustrate his technique by pulling away when he obviously intended you to stay there, amusingly grimacing while he cracked jokes at your expense?

Nah! Me, either.

Don J. Modesto
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Old 07-25-2005, 07:59 PM   #15
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

I saw three Shioda demos in the time I was in Japan and the 'toe' featured in every one. Basically, he had very flexible toes that he could bend downwards strongly. He also had the sensitivity to feel for the 'right spot' - liver 3 - kind of like how you feel for something on a table in a dark room. He didn't look at his toe - he just felt where to put it. I have tried it many time but it doesn't work for me - instead, I just step on their foot with my instep and push a-la shomen-ate, taking my foot of their just in time to allow a breakfall (without wrenching their ankle).

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Old 07-25-2005, 08:12 PM   #16
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

Quote:
Don J. Modesto wrote:
If it was your teacher at an international demonstration, would you frustrate his technique by pulling away when he obviously intended you to stay there, amusingly grimacing while he cracked jokes at your expense?

Nah! Me, either.
In an international demonstration...I would try, but If it started to slip out I would be terrified

But in class when they are asking you to. D*mn right.

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 07-26-2005, 03:47 AM   #17
Alex Megann
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

Kanetsuka Sensei, originally a student of Shioda Sensei, used to do this one (almost exclusively on me, it seemed at the time) although I haven't seen it for quite a while now. When it's on, it's hard to feel exactly where the contact is, since the exquisite sensation it causes fills one's whole being, but I think it's as Jun describes it - just above the big knuckle of the big toe, and between that one and the next.

Oh yes, he used to do the "yonkajo on the leg" thing Michael describes, too. Another Shioda-type application he still likes is called "nigiri-ho" (gripping exercise), which is like ryotedori kokyu-ho, but tori holds uke's wrists and controls their centre through them. We've been practising this one for years, both sitting and standing, but Kanetsuka is still the only person who can reliably take my centre with it as a kokyu technique, rather than just manhandling my wrists.

This one seemed to be a staple of Shioda's demonstrations, where he would often do it on two ukes at once (see http://www.aikidojournal.com/media.p...subcategory=15 - the right-hand shot of the Second Friendship Demo).

Alex
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Old 07-26-2005, 04:43 AM   #18
philipsmith
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

I too remember the "toe technique" from Kanetsuka Sensei.

Also I was taking ukeme for Tamura sensei once whilst he was teaching Jo-tori and he used this point to basically hold my foot in place while throwing. He said it was a useful way of taking ukes mind away from the weapon (he was right!). Basically the ukeme was to fall flat on your back while your foot was pinned.

As an aside I did try to pull my foot away; especially after the second or third technique, but never managed it.
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Old 07-26-2005, 05:47 AM   #19
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

We've tried this a few times but it's bloody hard to get your big toe in there with any force, and without getting cramp in the foot.

One slight variation I was shown years ago when I first asked about this, is to cover uke's big toe with the ball of your foot. I show this when playing at the end of class, uke will fall quickly if they are moving. If they are static, then I use Rupert's solution giving a little shove with the body. I remember practicing in Japan one time, we were doing some tenkan movements, I was partnered with my sensei. As I turned, I accidentally slid my foot over his big toe, he started laughing before I finished moving as he was already falling backwards

rgds

Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 07-26-2005, 09:23 AM   #20
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

Quote:
Bryan Bateman wrote:
We've tried this a few times but it's bloody hard to get your big toe in there with any force....
I think power would have been better, not force.

rgds

Bryan

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:08 PM   #21
Mike Sigman
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
We've played with this alot both at hombu and other clubs. Getting the point is not such a big problem, but getting your weight focused and centered so that uke cannot pull out their foot is still eluding me
Hundred bucks and an oath of secrecy and I'll tell you.

Mike
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Old 07-27-2005, 08:22 AM   #22
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

That one is easy...knock them out first!

R

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Old 07-27-2005, 10:48 AM   #23
Lyle Bogin
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Re: Mystery Yoshinkan/Shioda Toe Technique

Playing with the technique, I found it only worked when I positioned the pad of my toe a bit closer to the ankle then the pressure point Jun mentioned, then gently stretched the flesh to it's limit (getting right over the spot) and then digging in.

Ouch, it hurts a lot .
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