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Old 07-11-2005, 11:05 PM   #51
Tubig
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 90
Australia
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Re: Aikido versus Knees and elbows

Xuzen, I agree with you there. That is what I suggested to my dojo mate after I saw him take a moment in silence and tears whilst in pain. I will forward the other info that you suggested tomorrow nite at training, and probably give it a go myself as well. Hopefully it doesn't kill me. hehehe.

Thank you.
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Old 07-12-2005, 07:09 PM   #52
DustinAcuff
Dojo: Tan Aiki Dojo
Location: California
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Re: Aikido versus Knees and elbows

3 to 4 rotations, lots of kinetic energy. if you are really good at tenkan about 1 rotation should work.
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Old 07-13-2005, 03:02 PM   #53
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido versus Knees and elbows

The reason you will get an upper cut moving into this particular clinch is because you are probably leading in with your head down, back bent, and arms extending grabbing for the neck. I normally don't move in with this kind of clinch. Come in a different way, more balanced and guarded...usually you come in with both arms protecting your head, driving up the centerline of uke, once in press you center into him, hugging close and then pummel in over his neck if you bends over at waist. If not, then it is best to pummel down into double underarm hook, or move around to the side in a modified "seat belt securing on arm and reaching around his hip (think irminage style if you must!).

If you are maintaining good posture and defending well, your opponent should not be able to get you in the double arm of the head clinch.
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:08 PM   #54
wendyrowe
Dojo: Aikidog Aikikai
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Re: Aikido versus Knees and elbows

I was just re-watching Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido set so I could reply to a question from Kevin Leavitt on the "BJJ vs Aikido" thread, and saw a bunch of stuff I'd forgotten about how to deal with a clinch. Volume 5 "Striking Throws" demonstrates and explains getting out of a clinch using an ikkyo into entering throw, using an elbow throw, and using an inner thigh throw. He also shows using waki gatami if your opponent steps around out of the inner thigh throw attempt. He shows variations such as reversing into a wrist throw or using a side entry throw after the initial escape, and finishes with a submission. His main idea is that you escape the clinch before the knees and elbows start flying; your escape then puts you in more familiar territory, so you can use variants of techniques that'll seem more familiar, Aikidowise.
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:25 PM   #55
Tubig
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Australia
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Re: Aikido versus Knees and elbows

Went to training last night. We found a very good technique.

Aigame Ate and lots of it works.

My Tomiki past just got resurrected!!
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Old 07-13-2005, 10:12 PM   #56
L. Camejo
 
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Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
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Re: Aikido versus Knees and elbows

Quote:
Cromwell Salvatera wrote:
Went to training last night. We found a very good technique.

Aigame Ate and lots of it works.

My Tomiki past just got resurrected!!
Figured you'd find that one.

How about Gyaku Gamae Ate and Shomen Ate to add to that?

Happy training.
LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 07-14-2005, 12:55 PM   #57
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido versus Knees and elbows

Thanks wendy!

I actually practiced alot of clinching this morning along with pummelling and takedowns. Yes, you can see the aikido principles in just about every move you make. Kokyu during pummelling, ikkyo when you swim under the arm, and finally irmi/tenkan as you move to the side of the hip and control for the take down.
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Old 07-15-2005, 08:30 AM   #58
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
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Re: Aikido versus Knees and elbows

I've just scanned through the posts so I might have missed this but what about an elbow or knee strike without a clinch? Apart from the obvious "get out of the way".
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Old 07-15-2005, 08:55 AM   #59
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido versus Knees and elbows

Alex, I think that is a different dynamic all together. Much of the principles that you learn in aikido is very relevant. Iriminage, kaitenage, kotegaeshi come to mind. The difference is not the technique or principle, but the timing, distancing, and resistance, and speed that changes as we increase "free play" and intensity.

Funny part about it, once you go there...it looks less like aikido and more like MMA stuff. Vice versa...slow down good MMA training and it will begin to look like Aikido!
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