Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Techniques

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-05-2001, 06:43 PM   #1
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
Offline
Poll

'Do you think the concept of "ki" and how to "use" it in aikido can be taught without referring to it?'

I answered yes to this poll. Perhaps a year ago I would have said no.
While practising at a new club, lately, I have realised that...not only can Ki be taught without reference, but so can Zanshin and Ma-ai. I think that it takes us pattern seeking humans a lot longer, though. We are really more stupid than we give ourselves credit for .
(Yes, that includes me... at the top of the list.)

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2001, 06:44 PM   #2
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
Offline
Don't even think about it, Jim23....

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2001, 01:06 PM   #3
Jim23
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 482
Offline
Good one!

After reading your post, I said to myself "Self ...".

Anyway ... I scrolled down and there it was - you were one step ahead of me.

Jim23

Remember, all generalizations are false
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2001, 01:14 PM   #4
Suru
Location: Miami, FL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 453
United_States
Offline
Talking

Those closed-ended (yes/no) questions are always very difficult for me to answer. It's good that we can talk about it on the forum.

I think talking about ki constantly is not good, but I think it's good to discuss it some. Ki is a natural energy and is inherent in all creatures. We've always known about it, but it's nourishing to be reminded of it if we have forgotten.

Drew
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2001, 06:15 PM   #5
Jay
Dojo: Shindai Aikikai
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 3
Offline
I answered no in the poll, and here is the reason.

I beleive that it is important to think of Ki almost as a supernatural force, not in a "science fiction" sense, but in a spiritual sense. The more Ki is discussed in a rational sense, the more connection is lost with the spiritual side of things. Which is not to say that everything should be spiritual, but where is the enjoyment in living in a world where everything can be presented in mechanical terms? Personally I think that using the term Ki instead of energy, or any similar term, preserves some of the mystery that intrigues me.

Jay
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2001, 07:13 PM   #6
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
Offline
Hi Jay.
Why should spiritual (Ki) not be rational (Ki)?
It would be unfair to call Ki 'supernatural' when it can be shown in the 'natural' world. It doesn't lose any of its mystery, you just open the door...
Learning about, or refining, Ki, is perhaps a mystery, because you have no idea where you will be led (hehe), but that's not to say that it is outside the natural world. It isn't to say that Ki is diminished by our recognition of it, either.
The same can be said of any true principle. Acknowledging the existence does not mean that we understand the totallity of the journey it takes us on.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2001, 09:10 PM   #7
Jim23
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 482
Offline
Mark,

Have you been meditating again man? You sound so smart.

How do you feel about internet ki?

(Jim ducks below Mark's wild uppercut.)

Jim23

Remember, all generalizations are false
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2001, 08:45 AM   #8
Jay
Dojo: Shindai Aikikai
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 3
Offline
Mark-

I agree with what you're saying, and I understand that ki is natural, as well as spiritual. On the other hand I also understand that most people are quick to dismiss the spiritual side of life. Sadly we need little help observing and understanding the power of natural force as we experience it every day, but as far as matters of the spirit go most of us(myself included) walk blind. It is for this reason that I think the spiritual side of ki should be more emphasized than the natural side. I suppose this just all leads up to the fact that I responded to the poll question incorrectly. I should have answered yes, but even though I know it can be taught without the word Ki, I just don't think that it should be. Of course this is just my own 2 cents, whatever works for the individuals involved is in the end the right way to teach any given subject matter. Oh and on a completley unrelated note; I think this subject is a little deep for my 1st and 2nd posts

Jay
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2001, 10:42 AM   #9
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,200
Offline
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay
I beleive that it is important to think of Ki almost as a supernatural force, not in a "science fiction" sense, but in a spiritual sense. The more Ki is discussed in a rational sense, the more connection is lost with the spiritual side of things. Which is not to say that everything should be spiritual, but where is the enjoyment in living in a world where everything can be presented in mechanical terms? Personally I think that using the term Ki instead of energy, or any similar term, preserves some of the mystery that intrigues me.
I agree with the enjoyment/mechanical comments and hear what you are saying. The problem I see is that the mystery also creates problems and fictions such as O'Sensei dodging bullets (Tohei in his own way as well), disappearing/reappearing Sensei, beams of light emanating from people's heads (sans hallucinogens) and soon you have truckloads of deshi on a magical mystery tour. Don't we get enough of this when someone see's the likeness of the Virgin Mary in a jar of mayonaise?

Seriously, I think using ki in this manner cheapens our product something fierce. It doesn't add to the mystery to provide a half-baked answer that a non-creative 3-year old could think up, it detracts from it. What I think you are missing is that looking at ki in a spiritual sense is really more of an answer than a question. The real mystery is figuring out how something was done and questioning that without a preconcieved answer such as ki.

Quote:
Sadly we need little help observing and understanding the power of natural force as we experience it every day, but as far as matters of the spirit go most of us(myself included) walk blind.
Yes, and that's the joy and mystery of it. Everyone wants to spoon feed you answers. God created the Earth in 6 days, Zeus hurling thunderbolts, Aliens coming to take us away are all attempts at providing answers and damn simple one's when you really think about it. Ki, as it's so often used, falls into exactly the same category.

Erik steps down from the podium.

Last edited by Erik : 08-07-2001 at 11:04 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2001, 03:06 PM   #10
Steve Speicher
Dojo: Aikido of Central Ohio
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 42
Offline
Ki Symbol

So, have you had your yummy helping of ki today?

-----------------------------
Steve Speicher
May I ask what is meant by the strong, moving power (hao jan chih chi)? "It
is difficult to describe," Mencius replied. -- Mencius IIA2

403-256 BCE
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2001, 01:28 PM   #11
BC
Location: Chicago, IL
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 432
Offline
Re: Poll

Quote:
Originally posted by mj
'Do you think the concept of "ki" and how to "use" it in aikido can be taught without referring to it?'
I think yes. In the dojo where I practice, the term is rarely brought up or mentioned, except in jokes. In fact, I can't even remember the last time I heard "ki" mentioned during class. Even so, the instructors and seniors in the dojo are a constant reminder that they are able to apply effective techniques (and thus utilize "ki") on a daily basis.

Robert Cronin
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2001, 05:55 PM   #12
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 715
Offline
Hi BC, thanks.
Now, do you think it has the same power?
Be honest, people.
Knowing and not knowing?
Is there a spoon?

  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poll: Typically, how conscious are you about what your aikido instructor did as nage after you are uke for him/her? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 6 05-25-2006 11:49 AM
Poll: How often is verbal instruction given during class by your main aikido teacher? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 0 11-27-2005 12:30 AM
Poll: If you didn't train at all as uke, would you still be training aikido? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 20 11-01-2005 12:25 PM
Poll: Is the spiritual component of aikido inherent in the physical techniques? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 31 06-03-2005 11:38 AM
Poll: How important is knowing step-by-step kihonwaza (basic techniques) for beginning aikido students? AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 11 09-10-2004 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:48 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate