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Old 06-20-2005, 12:18 PM   #1
SeiserL
 
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Thumbs down Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Just got to watch the Combat Aikido series by DeLucia. Very impressive. His techniques are good legitimate Aikido, well explained. His conceptualization and strategy is sound. His application is innovative. Photography is great. The techniques he uses in most of the randori sparring is Aikido or the application of Aikido (blend and take balance) concepts. Very pleasant personable presentation.

A plus or minus is the minimal use of the traditional labels.

I personally, IMHO, question the label of "combat" Aikido. It is definetly Aikido well done. Since he goes for "submission" rather "kill", I simply question the packaging. It is competitive in the full contact resistance sense.

A nice package. My compliments and appreciation. There is, IMHO, something to offer here. I will watch it more and incorporate some into my training. If I get his way, I will certainly stop by.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 06-20-2005, 01:58 PM   #2
DaveO
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

I'd like to see it sometime - Mr. DeLucia has certainly generated some controversy in the aikido world - or at least on Aikiweb. This is to my mind a very good thing - it means he's thinking, learning, exploring for himself; just 'doing what evererone else does' is boring.

I agree with your assesment of 'combat' aikido though. I've mentioned this before; and if Jason is reading this; I'd like to make the point directly to him.

The word 'Combat' is advertising; nothing more. False advertising, at that. There are those of us that have seen real-life combat; with all the blood, pain, death and ongoing emotional trauma that combat inflicts. No-one in his right mind would ever advertise a 'combat' system if he knew what combat really was. From a personal standpoint; I find the casual use of the word rather insulting.

Jason's teaching is from what little I've seen excellent - he doesn't need to resort to such stupid tough-guy posturing.

Thanks.

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Old 06-20-2005, 02:09 PM   #3
mj
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Not sure I would agree that Combat means advertising.

In fact I probably wouldn't. 'Super' or 'deadly' or 'street' or 'american' would be advertising. These words are aimed at the person and are not descriptive. Combat is generally descriptive of his form of Aikido.

Not sure you can take personal offence at it either, it's not like he is calling it holocaust aikido or ku klux klan aikido.

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Old 06-20-2005, 04:48 PM   #4
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Quote:
Dave Organ wrote:
...I agree with your assesment of 'combat' aikido though. I've mentioned this before; and if Jason is reading this; I'd like to make the point directly to him.

The word 'Combat' is advertising; nothing more. False advertising, at that. There are those of us that have seen real-life combat; with all the blood, pain, death and ongoing emotional trauma that combat inflicts. No-one in his right mind would ever advertise a 'combat' system if he knew what combat really was.
As Frank Hale said on another thread a couple years ago re this topic,
Quote:
Frank Hale wrote:
In a Japanese reference, Delucia's aikido style is called "combat aikido" or "sport aikido."
I got the impression that he chose the name more because from what he'd learned it seemed the most accurate name; marketing has never been his strongest point.

The word "combat" doesn't only mean "a fight to the death" or "a fight in war" or "a fight with deadly weapons." Webster's Unabridged's first definition doesn't even get there til the end:
Quote:
Webster's Unabridged Dictionary wrote:
a fight; a struggle to resist, overthrow, or conquer; a contest by force; an engagement; an armed battle
I hadn't even realized it was an issue until I heard some vets object. But then, I have also heard from a lot of vets who've also been in action and don't object at all to the use of the word "Combat."

I think Jason DeLucia's point, as he's told me and I've heard him tell others, is that he steps into the ring every time knowing he could get killed or seriously and permanently injured; but that these are the techniques he relies on. He takes this stuff very seriously.

I, for one, am sorry that some of you who have lived through life-and-death combat don't like his use of the term; but I hope you can see that in no way did he mean to be disrespectful.
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Old 06-20-2005, 05:45 PM   #5
SeiserL
 
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Quote:
Wendy Rowe wrote:
I, for one, am sorry that some of you who have lived through life-and-death combat don't like his use of the term; but I hope you can see that in no way did he mean to be disrespectful.
Thanks for your understanding and compassion about where some of us are coming from. It may just always be a semantic sore-spot some of us live with. I know no-offense was meant, and none taken. Only an observation from an old grunt.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:58 AM   #6
DaveO
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Yeah; me too I guess. It's just that I hear the word used too casually too often. Real-life combat is utter savegery. There are no rules, no codes, no honour or achievement. Just kill him. As fast as possible and hopefully as unfairly as possible, from behind if you can, don't give him a chance just kill him. There is no gun movie or slasher flick that even comes close to the horror of the real thing when it gets close and personal. If you win; the trophy is you get to live a bit longer - maybe seconds - nothing else. That's what close combat is. Hey; all power to NHB competition; it's a great venue and I really admire those who excel in it and my admiration truly extends to Mr. DeLucia. But if he thinks the Octagon's combat he's living in a dream world and I don't give a rat's a$$ what the dictionary says.
Sorry if that sounds harsh. MY memories are still too recent to have mellowed. I realize I'm in the minority and these are my opinions only and therefore worthless, but competition and combat are not the same thing; and I still say calling what he does 'combat' demeans Jason's excellent art.

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Old 06-21-2005, 08:08 AM   #7
wendyrowe
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Quote:
Dave Organ wrote:
...these are my opinions only and therefore worthless...
I sure hope you know that's not really true.

Wendy
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Old 06-21-2005, 08:17 AM   #8
SeiserL
 
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Quote:
Dave Organ wrote:
MY memories are still too recent to have mellowed. I realize I'm in the minority and these are my opinions only and therefore worthless.
The memories may never really mellow my friend, just our reaction to them. While we may be the minority (thank goodness, I wouldn't wish my nights on anyone), we and our opinions are not worthless.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 06-21-2005, 08:44 AM   #9
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Hmmm. If the word 'combat' has more painful meanings for others than it does to me (to me it's just a word) then I certainly meant no offence, Dave.

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Old 06-21-2005, 09:53 AM   #10
SeiserL
 
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Quote:
Mark Johnston wrote:
If the word 'combat' has more painful meanings for others than it does to me (to me it's just a word) then I certainly meant no offence.
No offense take, Just some of us have been there.

Let's not get off on this one-word semantic thing and take away from a great set of instructional DVDs.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:07 PM   #11
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

As an infantrymen, I certainly share and understand Dave's position. I too am somewhat sensitive to the use/misuse of the word "combat". Not from a personal standpoint, but from the inferred meaning that it represents.

I can understand the paradigm that Mr Delucia is creating through the use of the word and have no problem with it.

Where the use of the word becomes a sore point with me, and I believe with Dave, is the way it is used by many. I am always posting on aikiweb in response to people who talk about something being "combat effective". I always ask, "what do you mean by that?"

The point is that most people I believe are trying to make is "economy" or efficient. To me "combat effective" means as how Dave defines it. No rules, someone dies. It is not pretty, nor does it necessarily follow rules of ettiquette as is observed in budo.

We all like to think that we the empty hand arts we study make us "combat effecitve", but the truth of the matter is, there is much more to being "combat effective" than studying empty hand arts.

The point is, I think you really need to think on a personal level about the words we use, and the meanings, and emotions they create inside of us. To me, the words "combat effective" used in empty hand arts/budo/or aikido, lure us into a false set of emotions that have nothing really to do with budo, or being combat effective.

enough on my ramblings!
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Old 06-22-2005, 03:11 PM   #12
SeiserL
 
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
As an infantrymen, I certainly share and understand Dave's position. I too am somewhat sensitive to the use/misuse of the word "combat". Not from a personal standpoint, but from the inferred meaning that it represents.
As an old grunt (S2 1/83 FA USArmy 72-74), I agree. But for the "normal civilian" population, combat is defined as a "struggle, fight, contest, conflict, or controversy." (Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary).

But hey, no one asked me.

Now, back to the content of the series please.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 06-22-2005, 11:35 PM   #13
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Sorry for that Lynn!

I suppose I should contribute something worthwhile that is related to the thread.

It is encouraging to hear positive things about the video. I hope to order one soon.

As newcomer to MMA, I have been exploring how you incorporate the Aiki principles and paradigm in the MMA context. It sounds like Mr Delucia may have some of the answers. I look forward to revieiwng it.
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Old 06-23-2005, 01:17 PM   #14
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

I completely agree with Dave. Combat is about obfuscating human beings into objects to be destroyed at the first sign of danger. Modern combat merely involves invoking machines which blow bodies apart. Although I certainly do not begrudge Jason his chance to explore new and interesting ways to apply Aikido, I feel that intending to use Aikido for combat is like pouring A1 Steak Sauce on the Hope Diamond.
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Old 06-23-2005, 03:07 PM   #15
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Yeah; but let's follow Lynn's advice. This thread is about the video series. I was wrong to hijack it with my complaint regarding the word; if we wish to start a new thread for that we can.

From what little I've seen the video package is excellent and I'd really like to see more of it.

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Old 06-23-2005, 03:25 PM   #16
Hagen Seibert
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Iīd say, if one uses the term "Combat Aikido" in the sense of "doing Aikido as combat" , there would be good reason to object. If one uses the term in the sense of "Aikido applicable in a combat situation", itīs different, because it could mean to strive for the martial art seriously, and to try to make Aikido work in the most extreme and difficult situations. I presume that might have been the intention.

Of course a soldier canīt do Aikido, as he does not really have the choice to deal the conflict the way he might wish. So the term "Combat Aikido" does certainly not fit for a military context. And of course Aikido does not work for bombs.

(Just my 2c, though, Lynn and Dave, I do share your experiences, and neither envy you for it)

Actually, I saw the videos offered, and thougth: "COMBAT Aikido, that canīt be more than crap." because it looked like boasting and marketing. Interestig to hear thereīs something to it. Thanks for your post, Lynn.
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Old 06-28-2005, 08:07 AM   #17
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Quote:
Benjamin Edelen wrote:
Modern combat merely involves invoking machines which blow bodies apart.
Benjamin, I take offense the way you depict modern combat. Besides CNN or Fox News, what are you basing this comment on? Having been in every combat encounter the U.S. has participated in since 1991 (Somalia, Bosnia, OEF, OIF, OIF 2) I can tell you it is much more than machines; it is upclose and often very personal. The Marines fighting house to house in Fallujah would also disagree (just one example, there are many more). You should be more careful how you describe something I suspect you have very little experience actually in. There are many service members who have lost their lives to an enemy, not a machine and to suggest otherwise is disrespectful to them and those still risking their lives in harm's way.

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Old 06-28-2005, 08:13 AM   #18
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Quote:
Hagen Seibert wrote:
Of course a soldier canīt do Aikido, as he does not really have the choice to deal the conflict the way he might wish.
I have to take issue with this comment also. I taught Aikido at Abu Ghuraib prison in Iraq and many of my students were MPs or Interrogators. Rules governing use of force on detainees are very strict and Aikido offers a method to immobilize or incapacitate a detainee with minimal use of force. The key word in Iraq is escalating force. You cannot use maximum force if less force is also applicable. As such, in the prison, Aikido offered soldiers an option other than deadly force.

At other times, during cordon and search missions, MPs or Infantry guys would be detaining suspected terrorists or insugents and Aikido techniques are very applicable. The capture of some individuals is worth much more than their death.

Gregory Makuch
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Old 06-28-2005, 11:10 AM   #19
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

My intention was not to devalue any individual's combat experience by portraying that individual as merely invoking machinery to heartlessly destroy the enemy. Invoking this machinery is not really the role of the individual soldier (modern artillery accomplishes more destruction during every day of a modern conflict than infantrymen could accomplish in a month). I must insist, however, that everyone who has experience with a modern battle rifle (or even handgun) knows that such a tool certainly endows its possessor with the capacity to destroy relatively numerous lives without even breaking a sweat.

Last edited by bkedelen : 06-28-2005 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 06-28-2005, 11:46 AM   #20
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Quote:
Gregory Makuch wrote:
Benjamin, I take offense the way you depict modern combat. Besides CNN or Fox News, what are you basing this comment on? Having been in every combat encounter the U.S. has participated in since 1991 (Somalia, Bosnia, OEF, OIF, OIF 2) I can tell you it is much more than machines; it is upclose and often very personal. The Marines fighting house to house in Fallujah would also disagree (just one example, there are many more). You should be more careful how you describe something I suspect you have very little experience actually in. There are many service members who have lost their lives to an enemy, not a machine and to suggest otherwise is disrespectful to them and those still risking their lives in harm's way.
You presume everyone is on your side. I didn't see Falujans with Battle Helicopts, Fighter Jets, Tanks or Napalm.

Feel free to correct me.

Whilst my sympathies lie with *everyone* who dies and suffers in conflict, don't be so quick to presume the moral high ground from which you take offence so easily. Feelings are strong on this subject so it's probably best for everyone to act with civility.

Enough thread drift.

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Old 06-28-2005, 12:23 PM   #21
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Re: Jason DeLucia's Combat Aikido Series

Mark, I do not make any assumptions about whether you agree or disagree with the war. I also don't dispute the use of increased technology such as UAVs. What I disputed was the implication that war was strickly machines. When we dehumanize war we lose perspective of just how horrific it can be. Whether you are for or against the U.S. action in Iraq, the fact is there is a very human face on the conflict. My morale high ground was for the individual on the ground, not the political process that put them there.

Benjamin, Thank you for the clarification. You are correct, the tools today definitely change how combat is fought. With that said, I also believe there are many levels of combat including conflicts dubbed OOTW (operations other than war) where safeguarding persons and property is in order. Police officers experience combat on a different level than soldiers and I think Jason's video series can benefit on that level.

Gregory Makuch
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