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Old 03-30-2005, 03:28 PM   #26
Chris Li
 
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Re: Steven Seagal's sword work

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Ok, sorry, but this is REALLY rich. Ono Ha Itto Ryu is the name of a STYLE...not a PERSON!

Ron (I really hope Seagal S. didn't make that mistake, and it was just someone transcribing what he said who made the error...)
I hope so too...

In any case, the weapons instructor for the Seven Samurai was Yoshino Sugino (from Shinto Katori-ryu) and he was definitely still alive at the time that The Challenge was made.

Best,

Chris

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Old 03-31-2005, 12:37 PM   #27
jitensha
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Re: Steven Seagal's sword work

Quote:
Onoha comes down in a Hakama and Kimono, the next day. He walks over to Mifune and says, "I came down here to tell you that this guy over here can teach sword as good, if not better than anybody I know." He bowed and left."
This is very odd....this sounds like a borrowed (and distorted) version
of what happened during production of The Seven Samurai between Yoshio Sugino and Junzo Sasamori (Ono-ha Itto-ryu). Maybe it's just
a weird coincidence. A nice
article about it can be found here

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." (Bertrand Russell)
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Old 03-31-2005, 01:37 PM   #28
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Steven Seagal's sword work

Hmmm, and they seem to get the distinction between a style and a person down right, too...

RT

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Old 03-31-2005, 05:00 PM   #29
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Re: Steven Seagal's sword work

Quote:
John Piquet wrote:
I definitely agree with you Ron. On the Internet does not make it true... However the article is orgininally from the "Martial Arts Masters" profile series magazine, which I believe is published by the Kung-Fu Illustrated group (could be wrong there... ) on a magazine dedicated to Steven Seagal.
I'll dig it up and post the relevant information.
Well, actually it was first printed in our Fall, 1990 dojo Magazine, which at the time was called Off The Mat. It was then "borrowed" with permission by the magazine, who apparently "forgot" to mention where it came from.

Quote:
John Piquet wrote:
I would think it's a transcription error as (you would hope) magazine writers would be held to a somewhat higher standard.
Yes, this is entirely possible. Although a very stringent process for confirming transcriptions and translations was instituted, it may have been an oversite by any one of a number of people over the months it took to put these issues together. This was the first issue, so again anything is possible


Quote:
John Piquet wrote:
Unfortunately unless you hear the unedited tape of the interview, who knows what was said. We can only hope honesty from Mr. Seagal and professionalism from the writer.
Yes, I do believe that I have the original video tape I shot during this July 1990 question and answer session. One of the issues is that there was this wickedly loud air conditioning system at Jack Wada Sensei's old San Jose dojo location. The sound quality of the tape was very bad because I was on one end of the room and Seagal Sensei was on the other end with the A/C system somewhere in between us. When I have some time I will have to pull these tapes out of the vault and see if what was said is audible.

However, as he is certainly available to speak with through various channels, someone could just ask Seagal Sensei directly.



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Old 03-31-2005, 07:48 PM   #30
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Steven Seagal's sword work

Quote:
John Piquet wrote:
Although much of this has been mentioned before...
The reason for my posting is from these articles.

"Sensei Seagal holds black belts in Karate, Aikido and Kenjutsu and has also studied Judo, Kali, Kendo, Eastern Philosophy, Shinto Religion, and the Holistic Arts (including Acupuncture, Herbology and Calligraphy)."
http://www.journaled.com/MA/Aikido/SSeagal/main.htm


"Seagal also holds black belt rank in kenjutsu..."
from http://martialarts.jameshom.com/libr...y/aa081400.htm

"Q: I read in an article that kenjutsu is a part of your life?

Sensei: Well, to me Aikido and kenjutsu are the same thing. If you've seen my technique, I'm always cutting. Today we just did a couple of stabs at this and that, but when you watch me a lot you'll see I'm always cutting with the feet and the hand; tesabaki, ashisabaki. The hand and feet angles are all kenjutsu. "
From students' interview with Steven seagal
posted on http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/S...articals2.html

Also from the same interview.
Q: Many years ago, when I saw "The Challenge," I saw your name in the credits. I was wondering how you got in to do the choreography?

Sensei: This is an interesting story. I was in Kyoto and there was a sword master by the name of Onoha Ittoryu,very very good at the inside stuff .Mifune, the Japanese actor, was to do "The Challenge." The guy who choreographed all the famous director Kurosawa's stuff, "Red Beard", "Seven Samurai" and all that had just died.

He was a great kenjutsu master and Onoha Sensei would not teach these people and believed I was a good swordsman. They came to me and hired me to choreograph the fighting and the sword and Mifune said, "Who is this white guy?" Mifune said to call up this Onoha guy and tell him to get down here. Onoha comes down in a Hakama and Kimono, the next day. He walks over to Mifune and says, "I came down here to tell you that this guy over here can teach sword as good, if not better than anybody I know." He bowed and left."

I certainly jumped the gun saying Seagal Sensei is a sword "master" however, it seems to me that many jump to conclusions and assume his skill level is not very proficient. It is my opinion that a large number of these are due to lack of knowledge of his training (which I am guilty of as well) and some other are due to outright jealousy.

Steven Seagal is in the limelight and often under the microscope because of what he does. But as far as his Aikido...in my opininon he is a much better Aikidoka than an actor.. (hmmm not sure if that is a ringing endorsement or not. ) Listen to him speak, attend a seminar or two, and as with most good instructors, there is a likelihood you will learn something valuable.

Separate the actor from man and martial artist. They are two separate beasts.



John

-But I could be wrong.
Actually, the original story was that Donn Dreager was hired to be the technical advisor for the movie. Seagal Sensei somehow met the director and was invited to praticipate as well. Dreager Sensei, who did have certification in the Katori Shinto Ryu (as well as in Jodo) had a discussion with him about his qualifications to advise on "kenjutsu" since he wasn't a student of any kenjutsu school. Seagal replied that he was a student of Tanka Bansen (very senior O-Sensei student with a dojo in Osaka). Dreager Sensei politely pointed out that this was all well and good but that Tanaka Bansen was not a student of kenjutsu either. Dreager Sensei knew pretty much everybody who was anybody in Japanese martial arts and certainly knew every foriegner training in classical arts in Japan.

There is some more to the story but I'm not going into it here. I can't remeber whether Dreager Sensei's name appeared on the final credits or whether he bailed on the project. Maybe someone who has an original copy could check on it.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
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Old 03-31-2005, 11:06 PM   #31
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Re: Steven Seagal's sword work

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
Actually, the original story was that Donn Dreager was hired to be the technical advisor for the movie. Seagal Sensei somehow met the director and was invited to praticipate as well. Dreager Sensei, who did have certification in the Katori Shinto Ryu (as well as in Jodo) had a discussion with him about his qualifications to advise on "kenjutsu" since he wasn't a student of any kenjutsu school. Seagal replied that he was a student of Tanka Bansen (very senior O-Sensei student with a dojo in Osaka). Dreager Sensei politely pointed out that this was all well and good but that Tanaka Bansen was not a student of kenjutsu either. Dreager Sensei knew pretty much everybody who was anybody in Japanese martial arts and certainly knew every foriegner training in classical arts in Japan.

There is some more to the story but I'm not going into it here. I can't remeber whether Dreager Sensei's name appeared on the final credits or whether he bailed on the project. Maybe someone who has an original copy could check on it.
Ledyard Sensei,

With all due respect, is this something that was related to you directly by Donn Dreager?



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Old 04-01-2005, 01:03 AM   #32
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Steven Seagal's sword work

Quote:
Shaun Ravens wrote:
Ledyard Sensei,

With all due respect, is this something that was related to you directly by Donn Dreager?



.
Actually it was told me by a close friend of Donn's who was in Japan at the same time.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 04-18-2005, 12:05 AM   #33
Misogi-no-Gyo
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Re: Steven Seagal's sword work

Follow-up

I have had a chance to review my copy of the original interview. There was definately a transcription error. What Seagal Sensei actually said was, "There was a master named Ono-Sensei, he was a master of Ono-ha Itto-ryu..." I was not involved in the original transcription. I simply forwarded the video I shot to those that did.

Now, while this does not clear up who Seagal Sensei did study with, and I would not elaborate on that here (even if I did know), it does go to substantially prove one thing that I have said over and over and over again - that being (and I mean this for everyone here who likes to quote second-hand sources, be they internet or otherwise...) If you really want to know, go ahead and ask Seagal Sensei yourself. If you don't want to muster up the balls to do that, (I mean he does appear in public) then it is probably better not to make public statements that may, in fact, reveal that you either don't know what you are talking about, or have some other agenda, conscious or otherwise.



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Old 04-18-2005, 08:50 AM   #34
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Steven Seagal's sword work

Hi Shaun (I owe you a letter...I promise I'm mailing it today!)

Well, I'm certainly relieved that it was a transcription error. Does anyone know of an Ono Sensei? I'm not sure that anyone here has said something that shows they 'don't know what they are talking about'. Different people often have different takes on the same event. I'm sure that there are more than a few that have trained with me on what I thought were some of my best days, and they came away thinking 'what a putz"....

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 04-22-2005, 01:29 PM   #35
NagaBaba
 
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Re: Steven Seagal's sword work

Here you have Steven Seagal master swordsman:


Nagababa

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Old 05-19-2005, 08:00 PM   #36
Charles Hill
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Re: Steven Seagal's sword work

Hi,

Again, I am not qualified to say that Haruo Matsuoka`s swordwork is the same as Steven Seagal`s. It looks similar to me. Anyway, I just got Matsuoka`s Virtual Dojo dvd with a kenjutsu class on it and I think it is terrific. There is 20-30 min. of swordwork on it as opposed to the few seconds on the Aikido Journal tape. If you are interested, you should check it out. This might also be a good place to say that this was my third order with budovideos.com and they definitely get an A+.

Charles
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Old 06-01-2005, 11:33 AM   #37
Walter Wong
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Re: Steven Seagal's sword work

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote:
Here you have Steven Seagal master swordsman:

Love Family Guy.
What a great show.
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Old 06-01-2005, 01:19 PM   #38
Sanshouaikikai
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Re: Steven Seagal's sword work

Walter Wong is my new best friend! Awesome post, man!!! LOLOLOL!!!!
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