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Old 05-02-2005, 06:11 AM   #26
makuchg's Avatar
Dojo: FL Aikido Center
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 84
Re: The "Martial" Side of Aikido

I always read these posts about "real-life" uses of aikido and the comments they generate with great interest. Now this is my opinion, but the majority of people in these threads have never had a violent encounter and are simply offering information they have gained from books, magazines, TV, etc. The reality is there is no choreographing in a real violent encounter. A violent encounter is very different than two drunks pushing each other. In a violent encounter there is NO DOUBT what your attackers intentions are. How you respond to the attack will be greatly dependent on your background. I always laugh when I read "instinctually I... (insert various aikido techniques)," unless you've been training for tens of years, you didn't respond instinctually. Just a note instinct would be if you tripped and did ukemi. Now we practice rolling A LOT more than techniques so I would venture to say if you're not doing ukemi instinctually, you're probably not doing techniques instinctually either. You will NEVER be fully prepared to deal with violent encounters unless you train as close to reality as possible. Police and military around the world realize this, martial arts are not different.

Now this got somewhat off topic, but Aikido is a martial art, but I understand what Mitch is saying. While Aikido is flowing and graceful, some practitioners don't view it as a martial art; they practice for the aesthetics not the practicality. While this may be OK for them, it takes away from the training of others. For example I did a nikyo on an uke and I have always been trained to apply nikyo like it should be and uke should not just go down, he or she should make sure nage is applying the pressure correctly to cause pain. I did the technique at a seminar and uke dropped like a stone. The uke then commented "it's not supposed to hurt." Well maybe I have a different mindset, but nikyo is a pain compliance technique and unless I apply so it hurts and get feedback from uke I won't know if I'm doing it correctly. Going through the motions and moving the arm to look like nikyo is not nikyo; causing pain so to disable or render uke harmless is nikyo. I'm not saying make uke cry, but uke should not just tap because it looks right.

As for all the Aikiweb lawyer, if you are not a practicing attorney, I would highly recommend NOT giving legal advice in this forum. And even if you are (though I don't think any would), your legal advise may not be applicable in the state, country, or territory the question was posed in. I'm not a lawyer and would not be so presumptuous to give legal advice, just as I would not give medical advice. If you want to understand legal implications of martial art use, talk to an attorney (maybe you can be lucky and there will be one in your class).

Gregory Makuch
Wandering Ronin
Spring Hill, FL
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Old 05-02-2005, 06:45 AM   #27
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Re: The "Martial" Side of Aikido

I always try to train in a "martial" mindset and like to make my aikido as effective as possible. I try as many variations as possible and use lots of atemi. I practise Kaeshi-waza whenever I can to learn the strong and weak points of a technique. When I attack an experienced aikidoka I expect to hit them if they dont move and vice versa, if they/I dont have a guard up then they/I get hit by atemi too.

The ways that I would practise certain aikido techniques in a more Martial/combat form are like this:

Ikkyo: Smash the elbow with a strike.
Nikkyo: Break the wrist. More of a projection technique.
Sankyo: Break the fingers and wrist. Just crank it on.
Yonkyo: Break the fingers/elbow.
Shihonage: Pull it uke's arm down onto your shoulder breaking the elbow, pulling out shoulder.
Kotegaeshi: Crank it on and twist into shihonage sort of, can break wrist and or rip tendons.
Iriminage: Break Uke's Neck.
kaitennage: Break Ukes arm, Knee them in the face, Break the neck.
Tenchinage: Break Ukes jaw/nose/collar bone.

Thats just the nine basics but obviously there are a lot more nasty variations of a technique that you can gain an understanding of. Those are the basic variations as I like to think of them. This is what these techniques were originally designed to do for "battle field" use or whatever you want to call it. What we practise in the dojo is the more art side of restraint and cooperation and obviously I would never condone inflicting this kind of injury on uke. Some injury, but not too much...

Last edited by Nick Simpson : 05-02-2005 at 06:47 AM.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 05-02-2005, 08:29 AM   #28
SeiserL's Avatar
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,888
Re: The "Martial" Side of Aikido

Nicely said, compliments and appreciation, Yes, IMHO, Aikido is still a martial/fighting art.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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