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Old 03-22-2005, 05:07 AM   #26
stuartjvnorton
 
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Dojo: Aikido Shudokan
Location: Melbourne
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 225
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Re: How does one stay stable

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote:
Fair enough... though I'm not sure how you can disagree on principle yet agree with both points I make?
I disagree in principle, but allow for the fact that my crap rendition of Aikido still has to rely on it for at least some of the effect.
But I've had it done on me, so I can see that it's very possible.
Hopefully one day I'll be good enough to be able to lock without pain, but until then it's just one more aspect I'm trying to improve on.
If/when I get there I'll be able to disagree more specifically. ;-)
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Old 03-22-2005, 08:47 AM   #27
WuMarci
Dojo: Da-An District Dao Guan
Location: Taipei
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Re: How does one stay stable

I want to thank everyone for all of your thoughtful responses to my initial problem. Each piece of advice has really helped me gain some perspective on my situation. I've been thinking a lot about maturity level. How mature is my practice? Certainly I can't expect him to view his practice the same way I view mine. Perhaps the laughter and what seems like arrogance is his way of masking an even deeper issue - his fear of falling. Such a big person hitting the floor can't be comfortable! So I've decided to handle him on a more mature level - through understanding, patience, and above all nurture the experience with a "protective spirit".

Thanks again!

Marci
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Old 03-22-2005, 09:52 AM   #28
SeiserL
 
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Re: How does one stay stable

Quote:
Marci Wu wrote:
Perhaps the laughter and what seems like arrogance is his way of masking an even deeper issue - his fear of falling. Such a big person hitting the floor can't be comfortable! So I've decided to handle him on a more mature level - through understanding, patience, and above all nurture the experience with a "protective spirit".
Deepest compliments to your insight, wisdom, and compassion. Now, IMHO, you are doing Aikido. I truly believe this is why Osensei felt that Aikido could be the cure for a world in conflict, confusion, and chaos. Domo

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 03-22-2005, 01:59 PM   #29
Bill Danosky
 
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Re: How does one stay stable

Being somewhat self-involved and narcissistic in nature, when I am frustrated with how someone else is acting, I often think to myself, "What is the purpose of this person or situation being in my life?" As has been pointed out over the centuries, every tormentor is your teacher.
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Old 04-14-2005, 10:52 AM   #30
Aiki.Ronin
Location: Louisiana
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Re: How does one stay stable

What about applying a little 'bit O Atemi'? A person I trained with liked to say that Atemi is "moving the mind", and that can consist of a feint or a strike. Whichever one it takes is the one that works, and then simply continue your throw.

He shouldn't be laughing as he resists if you do this because either A.)he will be to busy moving his head to keep from being punched/struck or B.)he will be having his head moved by your fist.

Both of which should keep him from laughing.

(Don't get me wrong, I think laughter in the dojo is delightful and a part of good training, but not when it is designed to simply belittle others.)
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Old 04-28-2005, 04:36 AM   #31
Randathamane
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: How does one stay stable

Quote:
Marci Wu wrote:
I'm wondering what other people would do in this situation. Usually I enjoy practicing with each and every person in my class. Most people have a very cheerful attitude and have a deep interest in improving. But once in a while, when my avoidance tactics fail me, I get with one partner who brings a very cocky attitude to class. I've come to believe that he only comes to class for the sake of his ego. He's quite overweight, so he uses his large stature to resist the throw. He never follows through, then laughs when your throw didn't work. I've asked around, and he has the same effect on everybody. I'm really trying to keep a positive attitude, but it's the LAUGHING! It's all I can do to resist hurting him! Any advice?

Joint lock.

It is the same principle as Sumo wrestling. The only thing that is going to stop a very large man "directly" is another large man. For a 150Lb guy to try and throw a 300lb guy is not going to work too well. It will work if applied correctly its just getting there that is the problem.

Had a guy at our dojo once who decided that "he could take us all down- he just needed the exercise" so after he had been splatting his cheek at me for the better part of 30 Min's- he rather publicly shouted at me "why should i listen to you?" and pushed at me.

He fell straight into Rockio and started screaming in pain, nearly crying. My answer was- "because you may well just learn something"
He did not return.

Not quite the aiki Philosophy, but even philosophy must give way to discipline. wouldn't listen to a senior grade and therefor could not be taught- when you come to the dojo and automatically look down on it, how can you come to learn anything in it?

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Old 04-28-2005, 11:48 AM   #32
Joost Korpel
 
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Re: How does one stay stable

Its pretty easy to resist an attack when you know what the attack is ahead of time. Realise that this UKE is not doing himself any favors by resisting the attack since resistance means he is applying some force in a particular direction and is no longer balanced. An experienced nage will sense this change in balance and take advantage of it, even if it means dynamically changing techniques.

I remember hearing, Akira Tohei Shihan, who would say uke, nage 50-50. I finally understood that meant uke and nage should strive for balance. This is what Aikira Tohei had to say about uke's responsibility in an interview:

The foremost responsibility of uke is to harmonize with nage's movements. This requires the state of mind called mushin or to be ego-less. The role of uke is not to "take ukemi" but to be thrown -- I cannot emphasize this enough. In Japanese, the saying is that one should enjoy throwing and enjoy being thrown. This does not say "take ukemi" -- it says "be thrown". There are students who ask to have ukemi practice sessions in order to learn how to take what they consider great-looking falls. But remember that Aikido is not an acrobatic or gymnastic performance. Aikido is moving in harmony with a partner, uke reacting in response to nage's throw. Sometimes I think students are taking the falls on their own rather than letting themselves be guided by nage. They swing their legs high and make sweeping arcs, much like a performer on stage. This is the ego in motion. Those who have been thrown by O-Sensei can never forget the feeling and the wonder at ending up on the floor without knowing how they got there. Not for an instant could one worry about looking good while "taking ukemi", for there was a complete giving over of the self, of mushin. We need to get back to the basics. When practicing with a partner, strive to become one and to harmonize with each other's movements. Students should not be throwing themselves, which is what happens when they do not allow themselves to be led by nage. Without a partner, there is no Aikido.

I would suggest you ignore this uke, ask for help from your sensei and work on being the best uke/nage you can to set an example for others.

Best of Luck.
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Old 04-28-2005, 01:34 PM   #33
rob_liberti
Dojo: Shobu Aikido of Connecticut
Location: East Haven, CT
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Re: How does one stay stable

I have seen people taking fancy ukemi to show off and I agree that is not good.

I have also seen situations where the nage would like to continue the powerful throw they are doing but has to back off because the uke is not skilled enough. I can assure you that there are some nages out there that throw such that the uke's legs must swing high up in an arcing motion for the uke to stay with the nage.

What I think is the problem, is that to develop that skill, the ukes start taking every opportunity they can to work on it and that in turn probably had gotten mis-interpreted and copied by some people with ego attachments to looking cool while taking ukemi.

My assumption is that Tohei sensei ran into a few of those people and got annoyed.

If he had run into some of my sempai being thrown by their sempai, I doubt he would have made such a comment to them or about them.

Personally, for iriminage, if my sensei lets me limbo out - so to speak, I opt for that. If he riips me up into the air at the end my legs kick up high, and I work on staying connected with the flow as much as possible.

Rob
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Old 04-28-2005, 03:09 PM   #34
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Re: How does one stay stable

Quote:
Marci Wu wrote:
I'm wondering what other people would do in this situation. Usually I enjoy practicing with each and every person in my class. Most people have a very cheerful attitude and have a deep interest in improving. But once in a while, when my avoidance tactics fail me, I get with one partner who brings a very cocky attitude to class. I've come to believe that he only comes to class for the sake of his ego. He's quite overweight, so he uses his large stature to resist the throw. He never follows through, then laughs when your throw didn't work. I've asked around, and he has the same effect on everybody. I'm really trying to keep a positive attitude, but it's the LAUGHING! It's all I can do to resist hurting him! Any advice?

That would annoy me. I'd say to him "OK fine, I can't do the technique, if I could I wouldn't be here trying to learn it, since you're so smug you can teach me". Then I'd learn really really really really slowly and insist on training with him all lesson every lesson.
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