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Old 03-09-2005, 03:20 AM   #51
Jarah
Dojo: Warrior Academy
Location: Kuwait
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 20
Kuwait
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Re: Aikido Babe ! ( Cartoon )

Greetings

Well I see the thread exceeds the cartoon criticism to a general discussion about the word ( Babe ) and weather it's offensive or not …. Can I ask one question ? … just a notice … why most the replies against the cartoon comes from females ?? … just a question !

I mentioned that this cartoon is the third cartoon I made about aikido and the last 2 are males cartoons …. Let me tell u something … I studied the American comics and advertisement … and based from my experience ( I have 3 comic books ) people will be attracted toward the nice looking ladies … u can see this rule in practice when u see fashion models, movie stars, and singers … and of course most of the products commercials … I'm using here the same strategy with no nudity or something that can harm the aikido … unless u think that making a good looking lady is something offending the aikido !

I believe 90% of people who enter the thread entered because of the title ( Aikido Babe ) … it's a form of advertisement … that's why I believe that this strategy is useful and effective to make people at least come and ask about this art … what is this aikido thing ? … This is a western strategy of advertisement not an eastern one

I knew aikido in the first time from Steven Seagal movies … I was dazzled by his style of fighting.. now many people will tell me : Steven Seagal expresses aikido in a violent, spoiled, different, and non ethical way than what it really is … ok … I agree … but weather u like it or not he is an aikido icon at least for the non aikidoists … many people here when they ask me about aikido I mention O-sensei and his history and wisdom … they get bored … but when i mention Steven Seagal … they get interested and they want to know more … and some of them ( 4 in my case ) came and joined the dojo

We practice a great art and we deserve publicity … we want to make people understand the philosophy and the vision of aikido … but first u have to bring them to u …I've been practicing aikido for 13 months and I'm a 5th kyo now … my understanding of aikido is 180 degree the opposite when I first joined … from admiring Steven Seagal to admiring O-Sensei … but u have to join aikido first to change u r view … don't tell me people will join u when u talk about the non physical strategy and the Mushin state and all this high moral concepts for a newcomer who all what he thinks about is crushing other people with his martial art skills

Well … I think I said enough … as always … I thank all people for their thoughts and replies

R. Haruo Hori & Jo Adell … special thanx for u both

Jarah
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Old 03-09-2005, 09:49 AM   #52
Jeanne Shepard
 
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Dojo: Puget Sound Aikikai
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 351
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Re: Aikido Babe ! ( Cartoon )

Quote:
Jarah Al-Tubaikh wrote:
Greetings

Well I see the thread exceeds the cartoon criticism to a general discussion about the word ( Babe ) and weather it's offensive or not …. Can I ask one question ? … just a notice … why most the replies against the cartoon comes from females ?? … just a question !

You are hearing from the women because we're the ones who feel the negative effects of being seen as sex objects when women are protrayed that way. Not all women feel this way, of course. JS

I mentioned that this cartoon is the third cartoon I made about aikido and the last 2 are males cartoons …. Let me tell u something … I studied the American comics and advertisement … and based from my experience ( I have 3 comic books ) people will be attracted toward the nice looking ladies … u can see this rule in practice when u see fashion models, movie stars, and singers … and of course most of the products commercials … I'm using here the same strategy with no nudity or something that can harm the aikido … unless u think that making a good looking lady is something offending the aikido !

People may be attracted toward nice looking women for a variety of reasons. Thinking some is sexually attractive doesn't mean you'd take them seriously as an instructor or even a training partner.JS

I believe 90% of people who enter the thread entered because of the title ( Aikido Babe ) … it's a form of advertisement … that's why I believe that this strategy is useful and effective to make people at least come and ask about this art … what is this aikido thing ? … This is a western strategy of advertisement not an eastern one

I agree. Sex sells. Its used in all forms of advertisement.JS

I knew aikido in the first time from Steven Seagal movies … I was dazzled by his style of fighting.. now many people will tell me : Steven Seagal expresses aikido in a violent, spoiled, different, and non ethical way than what it really is … ok … I agree … but weather u like it or not he is an aikido icon at least for the non aikidoists … many people here when they ask me about aikido I mention O-sensei and his history and wisdom … they get bored … but when i mention Steven Seagal … they get interested and they want to know more … and some of them ( 4 in my case ) came and joined the dojo

We practice a great art and we deserve publicity … we want to make people understand the philosophy and the vision of aikido … but first u have to bring them to u …I've been practicing aikido for 13 months and I'm a 5th kyo now … my understanding of aikido is 180 degree the opposite when I first joined … from admiring Steven Seagal to admiring O-Sensei … but u have to join aikido first to change u r view … don't tell me people will join u when u talk about the non physical strategy and the Mushin state and all this high moral concepts for a newcomer who all what he thinks about is crushing other people with his martial art skills

Well … I think I said enough … as always … I thank all people for their thoughts and replies

R. Haruo Hori & Jo Adell … special thanx for u both

Jarah
I care less and less about engaging in this kind of dialoge for my own sake. I've been training since '97 have been through all the male-female discussions, and now I just train. But I'm starting to care more now, because our dojo has started a Girl Scout Aikido group that meets regularly, and I'm face to face with the pressures my 13-14 year old girls are dealing with all the cultural image and beauty vs strength and competence stuff. I think your intentions are good, Jarah, but that image is not something I want my GS students to have in their heads as a model.

Jeanne

Last edited by Jeanne Shepard : 03-09-2005 at 09:51 AM.
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Old 03-09-2005, 12:32 PM   #53
skyetide
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 27
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Re: Aikido Babe ! ( Cartoon )

As a woman

As an artist

As an aikidoist

This is my observation. This is my perspective.

Weather a person is aware of something or not does not make it more or less true.

I am simply making an observation when I am speaking about what I see in young girls as a result of unrealistic/idealistic images in the media. I am actually speaking mostly of N. America, as that is where I live.

And yes, Mr. Hori, the reverse is true. I also see small male teenagers picked on continually because they do not fit the stereotypical big muscle-bound male ideal.

Aikido, as I understand it, is a way of peace. Seeing what I observe to be a harmful image in the context of Aikido seems to negate the basis, the power of Aikido. That is, to bring peace, to bring confidence, to bring harmony, to bring knowledge.

When people find out that what they think is funny, entertaining or what they enjoy is harmful to others, they often react with anger or try to convince the people whom they have harmed that they are not harmed, that their perspectives are silly so that guilt can be assuaged. It happens in many contexts with minority groups all the time. Take racial jokes for example. One can easily say "laugh it off….I didn't mean any harm." But if someone has spoken up about it the harm is already done.

Yes, Mr. Hori, art is a reflection of society. Exactly my point. Art is also very powerful and can be used to bring new perspectives to light. Check out the contemporary artist Charlene Teter's work dealing with Native American stereotypes in the media. The damage of racial stereotypes is not unlike that of the stereotypes and un-achievable body images of women that dominate US media.

http://www.charleneteters.com

And to clarify, Mr. Hori, "goddess" was my attempt at flippant humor as were the comments about the nails, hair & sports bra. Saying I prefer "goddess" is supposed to be ironic—if I truly believed that I was a goddess, yes that would be egotistical and probable cause to admit me to the psych ward for delusions of grandeur or some other psychosis. Saying that I want to cut her nails was a sarcastic way to drive the point home that she is an unrealistic image. I can't imagine doing munetski or any other number of Aikido techniques with long nails. Likewise with the long flowing hair down almost to the ground…and she just doesn't look like she is—ah-hem---properly secured. I will try to be more clear in my humor next time.

Here are a couple of websites on the topic of women in the media

http://www.mediaandwomen.org/problem.html

http://www.jeankilbourne.com/
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Old 03-09-2005, 10:48 PM   #54
thomas_dixon
Location: Florida, USA
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 185
United_States
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Re: Aikido Babe ! ( Cartoon )

Art doesn't have to be based on reality. Look at Picasso...You're going to tell me there was anyone on this Earth that looked like half the people in his paintings?

Since when does political correctness overwhelm common sense?
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Old 03-10-2005, 11:46 PM   #55
LizardCrossing
Dojo: Aikido of Dallas
Location: Fort Worth, Tx
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4
United_States
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Re: Aikido Babe ! ( Cartoon )

Jarah,

Just throwing my comments into the fray. Nice artwork.

The "babe" issue..
I've never had problems with being called babe or hun. If someone used it in a derrogatory fashion, I'd say something. As far as the term "budobabe" I like it ^_^ For me, aikido was very intimidating (and still can be when the dojo is 90 % male)
Most nonaikidoists think I'm crazy for practicing any martial art. While I'm far from looking like your budobabe, the message I get from it is "it's okay to be feminine, beautiful, ladylike...etc... and still practice aikido (or any other MA for that matter)"

Almost anything can be offensive if one is looking to be offended. Sometimes it's much more difficult to find the positive in something, but it's usually more fun, and it keeps the mind open. That's my philosophy-- though I can understand the other objections.

Kudos on the artwork. At least it gets people talking and thinking about aikido and the image we would wish to portray to the potential aikidoists out there.

Liz
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Old 03-11-2005, 09:52 AM   #56
Qatana
 
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Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
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Re: Aikido Babe ! ( Cartoon )

And lets remember that what may be "degrading" to an American, feminist oriented woman could be exactly the empowerment that a Kuwaiti woman needs to discover that martial arts are even available to women.
How many feminist organisations endorsed Xena as a postive, empowering program? Well if a 6foot babe in a corset absolutely butchering men and mythology is empowering, so is the Aikido Babe.
As I've mentioned before, lets keep our expectations realistic. We cannot expect to overturn several million years of biological and cultural conditioning in a single lifetime.If its difficult to achieve in the a democratic ,egalitarian society, why do you expect it of a religious, male dominated one?

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 03-12-2005, 09:05 AM   #57
LizardCrossing
Dojo: Aikido of Dallas
Location: Fort Worth, Tx
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4
United_States
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Re: Aikido Babe ! ( Cartoon )

Quote:
Well if a 6foot babe in a corset absolutely butchering men and mythology is empowering, so is the Aikido Babe.
Right on
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Old 04-06-2005, 06:12 AM   #58
thomas_dixon
Location: Florida, USA
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 185
United_States
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Re: Aikido Babe ! ( Cartoon )

Wow...you people are Sexist.

First you claim a word is offensive, which is absurd, because a word's "offinsiveness" is determined by the time period and language of which it is said. (by definition the word "Babe" means an "attractive young woman", and therefore is a compliment.)

Then you claim the image is offensive because the girl just so happens to be considered pretty(which you claim is promoting unrealistic images of women, as if it has to be realisitic people...it's art). God forbid he put an unattractive woman in there so you can go on about how he's making the statement that 'only ugly girls do Aikido'.

And then you bring into the discussion about what it means to be a "woman in the work place." By law (the ones women in the US fought forever for in the early 1900's), it's the same as being a man in the workplace. If you feel abused the company you work for is obligated to investigate the problem, otherwise the authorities will.

I honestly don't see teenage girls gawking over John Smith (I also doubt the 13 and 14 year old girls you council drool over pictures of the guy in Accountants' magazine.)

So please don't try to say the US is a male dominated society. All citizens, no matter what race, sex, etc. have the same rights.

Back to topic:

The art was good. It was well drawn, and digitized, and he deserves kudos for not only the time he spent drawing it, but the time he spent wading through the useless argumentive banter (mine included) to get the feedback on the whole point of this discussion, his art.
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Old 04-06-2005, 10:58 AM   #59
Ki No Nagare
Dojo: Aikido School Ki no Nagare
Location: Waddinxveen
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 19
Netherlands
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Re: Aikido Babe ! ( Cartoon )

Quote:
Thomas Dixon wrote:
Wow...you people are Sexist.


God forbid he put an unattractive woman in there so you can go on about how he's making the statement that 'only ugly girls do Aikido'.
Couldn't have said it better myself! No matter how he would have drawn it, it wouldn't be good. You don't see all the men saying: ow, everyone that does aikido has a beard!

It comes down to: great artwork, all three of them! You give me inspiration because I also design things for my dojo. And the use of the word babe.....come on people.....it's a normal word...

So everyone quit whining about this!
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Old 04-06-2005, 11:11 AM   #60
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
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Re: Aikido Babe ! ( Cartoon )

Quote:
So everyone quit whining about this!
Hold on, while I may disagree with most of the negative comments provided in this thread, no one actually forced Jarah to place his artwork up for critique on the web.

He asked for comments on the impact of his artwork - well I think he got it in about the proportion I'd expect (both for and against) for an image and text which was bound to polarize opinions. All he has to do now is
a) decide whether the positive and negative comments matter for his target audience (and his own peace of mind)
b) continue drawing.
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