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  #26  
Old 09-12-2008, 11:25 AM
John Driscoll
Username: John Driscoll
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Location: Covington, Louisiana
Dojo: Aikido Nord du Lac
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Correlation of Aikido and Daito-Ryu Waza

BACKGROUND:

In creating the technical body of Aikido, Morihei Ueshiba adopted the majority of techniques forming the physical basis of his art from Daito-ryu. Ueshiba then changed the techniques to conform to his vision for Aikido, as a martial art and a way of peace. In...

Last edited by akiy : 09-14-2008 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 02-24-2012, 01:41 PM   #25
Scott Harrington
Location: Wilmington, De
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Re: Correlation of Aikido and Daito-Ryu Waza

For Leonaiki,

While I am not knowledgable on Daito ryu, on happo giri (8 direction cut) there is a direct source for it's origin.

From:Transparent Power by Tatsuo Kimura, pg 194.

Happogiri [eight directions cut] wi the long sword, and hitori furibo [solitary swinging of the heavy club] were all techniques directly handed down from Sokaku Takeda Sensei. The long sword and the clubs made absolutely incredible whooshing sounds when Sagawa Sensei executed those techniques.

Why Ueshiba sensei did not pass on the stories of his predecessors is one of those unanswered questions. Questions, more Questions, and then some more Questions.As to Ueshiba modifying techniques, I have seen Kondo sensei demonstrate (at one of the Aiki Expo) the parts eliminated on a simple technique as ushiro kata tori irimi nage. Strike, foot trap, attack to chin, head smash. Do you really want these taught to high school students or people looking for 'harmony.'

O'sensei, following in Kano's 'simplification' (a live wire phrase) certainly followed in a more 'aiki' manner. Now how dou you really do 'aiki?'

Scott Harrington
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Old 02-25-2012, 03:36 PM   #26
Leonaiki
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Re: Correlation of Aikido and Daito-Ryu Waza

Hi Scott,
No doubt modern contemporary aikido has forgotten a lot about the underlying reality of budo. Thanks to the Internet, lots of data are surfacing.

Good point about Sagawa and that branch of Daito.
Kimura does not say that happo giri (happy giro as I like to call it) also exists in Kashima Shinto ryu andI wonder if he means that one or another one.

More generally speaking, I'm wondering what is HG role in Daito (at least not the branches influenced too heavily by Aikido).

Cheers
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Old 08-03-2013, 05:41 AM   #27
IvLabush
Location: Kiev
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Re: Correlation of Aikido and Daito-Ryu Waza

It was a lot of work to do this. Only one question bothering me. Why you don't correlate iriminage from aikido to different kind of iriminage from DR?

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Old 08-04-2013, 06:01 PM   #28
iron horse
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Re: Correlation of Aikido and Daito-Ryu Waza

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
Most interesting. Thanks for the detailed answer.
I have an additional question. Have you got any idea if many other Japanese Ju-Jutsu styles are as similar, or are significantly less similar? (in this regard, the notion of correlation is very useful, when correlating signals, one often compares the correlation to a desired signal to the correlation to other signals).
Amir
I studied Takeda Ryu under Nakamura Hisashi in Japan at his home dojo about 20 years ago - got to Shodan. Many of the techniques were just like those of Aikido, albeit with different names, and they also had a very interesting system of Kokyu-nage. In fact, the way they organsied everything was very interesting - no time to write now.
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Old 07-26-2016, 07:57 AM   #29
5kyu
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Location: Decatur, Illinois
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Re: Correlation of Aikido and Daito-Ryu Waza

Awesome Job, very valuable information
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Old 10-15-2016, 04:22 PM   #30
rugwithlegs
Dojo: Open Sky Aikikai
Location: Durham, NC
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Re: Correlation of Aikido and Daito-Ryu Waza

A lot of work in the original post!

A note on the bibliography - Tomiki and Shioda were two major students of Ueshiba whose initial ranks would have been in Daito Ryu. They also use different nomenclature than Aikikai, and their syllabus is organized differently. Koichi Tohei was a giant in the Aikikai post war until he separated, and his organization and names are different as well. Some changes in terminology seem to be ongoing.

What bakes my noodle is what I learned as udekimenage, has been called kokyunage, tembinage, jujinage, and gedan ate variation, and many others. DR irishigai? It seems tembin refers to a lever with a fulcrum at the elbow, Kokyu refers to timing and unbalancing and might not use the elbow, udekimenage on elbow trauma, juji refers to the cross formed by the two arms, gedan ate to striking from underneath. So, in a picture they all look the same. In application, the specific variation may look the same but will feel very different. The different names might actually be valid and not just arbitrary. Also true of gyakugamaeate/sokumen iriminage/kokyunage/sayunage.

Add in that the different schools of DR seem to be divergent in their names, and that Aikikai schools don't seem to be uniform in their names either.
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