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Old 01-17-2008, 10:38 AM   #39
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Dojo: Senshin Center
Location: Dojo Address: 193 Turnpike Rd. Santa Barbara, CA.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,473
Re: Is Aikido effective for police?

In fact, my agency at least, has no policy whatsoever concerning knives. Many are like this though. However, I'm one of the lucky ones that has an agency that allows for a great deal of officer discretion when it comes to situations that might involve a weapon (any weapon) retention. If you are about to lose your firearm, and you pull your knife and use it, you are going to be within policy.

"A tactical retreat from the grapple so that your real weapons, (1) authority that can bring extra officers and even a helicopter on the scene, (2) distance so that your sidearm can do the negotiating,
(3) your primary mission which is to command the overall incident until backup arrives.

That sounds like Aikido."

Yes, that's what I'm thinking. :-) Again, I'll try and get this on video soon.

We have done a lot of stuff with angle of deviation, which allows us to interrupt the OODA loop of the attacker/suspect right from the beginning, within some basic attack/ambush scenarios (armed and unarmed). We have had positive results regarding the things you listed above (whether we are on the ground or standing) this way. Right now, we are looking to figure out how to bring this element and all its advantages to something like a knife deployment. We have managed to do this with other equipment on the duty belt - using one weapon to defend against the attempted taking of another. However, all of these weapons are better able to be drawn from the front or side of the body (which means we do not have to put our arms/hands behind us) without losing their level of retention (due to holster retention devices and designs). This is often not the case for knives. In fact, most folks I know wear their knives in a back pocket. This has one having to put his hands/arms behind him/her to get it - which is not a good thing, or even a possible thing, in fight/retention situation. Additionally, the weapon is only secured by a clip - which means it in itself has zero retention technology built in. We are looking to see what's possible and not possible from within our live training environments. My feeling, however, from the beginning, is that technology is going to have to step in (i.e. allowing for a quick deployment from a secured location). I know Emerson knives has worked on the quick deployment issue, but I've yet to see someone addressing the retention side of things. Right now, the way things stand, I am pretty sure I'm going make a lot of officers sorry they are wearing that knife in a pocket with just a clip to keep it on their person when we go to our live training environments. Additionally, I'm wondering if can really deploy that weapon under a barrage of energy and progress - such as one would experience in a gun retention situation. My feeling is no, or if I could, I'd rather deploy another weapon (e.g. taser to protect firearm, firearm to protect taser).

Below I've posted some stuff I've found on Youtube. One of them has a guy using the knife in a gun deployment situation. For me, in that video, and in the others, not enough movement. I just don't like the idea of standing still and expecting leverage or striking to work like when one is taking pictures for a manual. My experience is that that stuff never works and if there is something less than "never," I'd like to say that that stuff works even less when one is wearing a duty belt, trying to have authority that can bring extra officers and even a helicopter on the scene, allow for distance so that your sidearm can do the negotiating, and have it remain possible to complete your primary mission, which is to command the overall incident until backup arrives.


David M. Valadez
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