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Old 08-30-2010, 08:13 PM   #163
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,248
Re: Ueshiba Morihei's power

David Orange wrote: View Post
I think there is a better or more complete version of that or similar incidents.
Maybe. Can you reference it?. Something with more substance than "I think"?. Let us check your data.

Anyway, did you see any of the MPs get hold of him--or keep standing when they did?
- Ueshiba is outside the circle of attackers when the movie starts. The group of MP's has been obstructed by Ueshiba students.

- Demo of slow paced shihonage with compliant MP who clearly lacks even basic judo landing skills. Look at his left arm.

- Demo of kokyu-ho/nage. MP has no posture even before Ueshiba starts, founder's deshi clashes with MP and he falls like a sack of potatoes.

Well, they (the MP's) went up against whoever they had to. And I think any soldier who had come through the war was going to be pretty tough. I also would not disdain anyone who had no formal training as being a push-over--especially not an experienced combat veteran from the US Navy, Army or Marines. I'm not saying they or the MPs were gods, but they weren't stumble bums. Any MP serving in post-war Japan must have been a handful
It seems those hardened MP's weren't invited to that demo.

and I doubt many of today's (American) black belts would find them easy to handle.
Surely, but we're not talking about the Mcdojoization of martial arts in the USA

That's from memory of things I've read. I think I did say, "I believe Robert Smith was among them" (approximately). But, actually, I think he was. In fact, I'm thinking he was the guy Ueshiba threw once with shiho nage. I don't know.
This is what you wrote:

Also, there are the written accounts by the men in that group and by others who observed. I believe one of those MPs was Robert W. Smith, who was a contemporary of Donn Draeger's...
The probablility of Smith being one of those men is very, very, very remote. I suggested to you to check your sources, but Ellis did it for you.

It seems to me you're reaching conclusions about Ueshiba's power based in mixed and unnacurate memories of things you've read or watched some time ago filtered by your mental frames. Don't worry, I do the same.

Anyway, who were the skilled budoka Ueshiba defeated in hand to hand combat? Names? Places? Circunstances?

Was Ueshiba respected by his peers or we have a case of tatemae at its best?
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