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Old 11-19-2006, 07:41 PM   #104
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
Re: Aikido: The learning of natural movement

David Orange wrote:
So I think you're talking about something other than aiki in these things you describe.

Not that I discount what you do. In fact, I'm still hoping to meet up with you one of these days and experience the things you are talking about. But I have had perfectly fine results from the aikido I have learned over the past 31 years and I have observe children able to do things that could easily be trained into advanced aikido if anyone recognized it in them and knew how to train it.

Hope we can get together sooner rather than later.

Best wishes.

Hi Dave
First Up I appreciate the time it took you to put together such a long reply. Even though we completely disagree it just goes to show it can be done and still remain friends eh? To completely disagree but do so with respect is something I wish more folks could manage.

Man O man do I think you're wrong though
First up what you call Aiki.... I call basic jujutsu or Judo. It isn't aiki to me at all. Pushing on a proverbial door and having someone pull it open is no bid deal. It is neither high level or anything I'd want to do and call a high level anything.... anytime soon.
So for you to identify that and go "Oooohh look look, Aiki in a child" Is to me just saying "See a child can do my art." Its not something I'd be bragging about anytime soon. So saying to me (your quote) " So I think you're talking about something other than aiki in these things you describe." Is really just another way of you saying the equivilent of: Dan this is all I know of what Aiki is. Since I don't know about, and haven't felt anything more profound- its all I can relate it to."

Again, these skills are of a higher order. They have less to do with the other guy and more to do with ourselves. That, is the real key. The rest of the blending stuff is nonsense if you don't develop your self first.And there are far more efficient ways to move then that stuff.These skills need to be explored where ever we may find them. Others are finally contributing and describing what they are doing and/or others in Aikodo finally getting out and experiencing them: Ledyard, Murray, Holz, Moses, Fong, Hassenpflug, and a few others in Aikido who choose to be silent and remain behind the scenes are reporting what they have found. In fact, don't you find it even in the least bit odd, or strange, that no one.....not one, has reported back that these skills are baloney? Rather the opposite is true, they are reporting back in a consistent voice. How'd that happen? And it appears they report these skills are profound and essential to what aiki really is. That you do not see it or can even fathom it as being Aiki is understandable.

As Ellis said "Hidden in plain site"
As Mark Murray said To borrow a phrase from Amdur, it really is hidden in plain sight. But you'd need to be a genius to actually know how to read it and pick up the internal stuff on your own.
And this goes to what is being taught. It is indeed what Ueshiba learned from Takeda in the first place. But you cannot learn in a vaccuum. You mentioned Ueshiba's quote about people who get it ....can do what he does in months. Takeda said the same thing. So did Sagawa.
So .......where are the people doing it? If it was supposedly taught?

I'd not settle for anything less in my life. I'd be out searching and finding them wherever I could.


Last edited by DH : 11-19-2006 at 07:49 PM.
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