View Single Post
Old 03-10-2009, 08:17 PM   #229
Peter Goldsbury
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,308
Japan
Offline
Re: Who Sez O'Sensei Was Wise!

Hello Philip,

I think you are oversimplifying somewhat, hence these comments.

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
Peter,

Now, I understand George's use of the importance of myth. Myth is part of the fabric of Aikido. It exists, and plays a useful part. Without it, Aikido is less. Basically, in a nutshell is my understanding for the heck of it.
PAG. The senses I gave are not 'my' senses. They are directly quoted from the Shorter Oxford Dictionary. I would think that any other dictionary would give similar definitions. The definitions yield, I believe, two fundamental concepts of myth.

(1) The first are the myths that are the foundation of the researches by scholars like James Frazer, C J Jung, Joseph Campbell, and anthropologists like Margaret Mead, B Malinowski, Ruth Benedict, Clifford Geertz, and Colin Turnbull. Like metaphor, these are 'cross-cultural', in the sense that there are such myths in every culture and they help to define the culture in a real way. These myths feature in children's bedtime stories probably all over the planet.

(2) The second conception relies more on the manipulation of myths for ulterior motives, which motives are not necessarily known for what they are to those who manipulate them. I think one can see that there are situations where the two senses become congruent. The 'myth' of the Emperor is one example here in Japan.

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
What am saying is yes, Aikido has myth. It is a part of Aikido. But not in the way we might think, and we have come to expect, in our western way.
PAG. You need to distinguish the 'western way' and the 'non-western = oriental way' in more detail and deities meeting on a riverbed are not much help here. For example, the myth of Oedipus was used by Aristotle to create a theory of drama that has lasted for many centuries and was used by such dramatists as Shakespeare. The story of Oedipus was a tragedy and the myth enabled Aristotle to present a tragic drama as a cathartic experience for the audience, who 'participated' in their own way. Shakespeare's King Lear is a good example of an Aristotelian tragedy. So in one sense, the 'mythification' of O Sensei is quite 'western' and in some respects can fit Joseph Campbell's idea of the 'hero'.

Quote:
Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
I think to understand how myth functions in Aikido we have to look at the way the Japanese create myth, its purpose, and function which is different then from the west. I used the Japanese deities at the river bed myth because how it is used in Japanese thinking. And because of that myth being a relatable and well known example in O'Sensei's life and Aikido.
PAG. It might well be that the Yamato kings believed that using the episode of the deities meeting in the riverbed reflected their own ideas of good government, but I do not see that this affects the relationship between the myth and the culture in which the myth flourishes. Actually, Joseph Campbell is quite popular here in Japan and the pattern:

"Once upon a time there was a handsome prince and a beautiful princess etc etc ... and they all lived happily ever after,"

is repeated in many Japanese myths.

So, I am not sure that the mechanism, if you like, in which myths become an essential part of a culture and are used to maintain and preserve that culture, actually differs between 'western' and 'oriental' cultures.

Best wishes,

PAG

Last edited by Peter Goldsbury : 03-10-2009 at 08:20 PM.

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Kokusai Dojo,
Hiroshima,
Japan
  Reply With Quote