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Old 08-26-2012, 03:27 PM   #21
Basia Halliop
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 711
Re: talking and listening

Mark said: "For example, according to Admiral Takeshita's diary, Ueshiba supposedly said, "Aiki is a means of achieving harmony with another person so that you can make them do what you want." To me, if I apply that to your example, if one man used aiki, he would have the orange while the other man did not. How do you see Ueshiba's words in your example?"

Well, one way of looking at it, as I said earlier, is the difference between a training situation (which IMO should be mutually beneficial) and the eventual application of that training in an actual conflict (where there may be one who benefits and one who loses).

I like this way of looking at it, too, though.

Janet said: "So I'm "imposing my will" by getting him to move towards the outcome I desire.
I think that when I've nailed something in the dojo it's essentially the same: I'm not muscling through or imposing a technique that I decide I want to do, I'm listening to uke enough that we can get to the same place, one that I want."

'achieving harmony with another person so that you can make them do what you want' sounds a bit like leading someone into choosing what you wanted them to choose all along. E.g., you leave your opponent, maybe slightly bemused, standing there (or lying there ) holding part of the orange you wanted them to have, remembering reaching for it, and thinking it seemed to make sense to do so at the time.

Though to be sure, that may be stretching the idea of 'everyone getting all of what they want' more than a bit. Though maybe your opponent did fully want it for a moment.

Last edited by Basia Halliop : 08-26-2012 at 03:37 PM.
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