DH

You missed my point Chris.
In that it's not *a goal.*
It is part of the training.
It's an end result that's created through good training with the right mindset. It happens.
Trying to make it a "goal" has for the most part made it an artiface in many places. It's what the do arts have stated as a goal for years, and have failed sometimes to pull off.
I offered the grappler model as a countepoint of modern men who manage to find it uplifting and life affirming in many ways. As Ricky noted as well.