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Old 06-21-2010, 10:19 AM   #62
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 950
Re: Madman With A Gun

Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Well, no, they're really not, because supposedly this is a discussion thread about how to handle the "madman with a gun" scenario, and you're mistaking what I've said for a hairsplitting digression on terminology. My point is a very simple one, and this is the last time I'll attempt to make it: in order to train to defend yourself, you must first take note of meaningful distinctions between different self-defense scenarios. See? If you are attacked by someone who wants your wallet, that is a different situation from being attacked by a drunk sports fan who doesn't like the cap you're wearing, and both of those situations are different from a disgruntled employee who's after you because you denied him a promotion. Their intent is different, their preparation is different, and what you have to deal with is different. Don't you think your response should also be different -- and, since we're talking about training for self-defense, don't you think your preparation must also be different?

Well, maybe you don't. I have no idea what you're thinking. But using one term, whether it be "domestic violence" or "banana", to discuss all attacks between family members, is a failure to make a meaningful distinction. We human beings use language, and when we make note of distinctions, that tends to be reflected in the language we use. If I talk about "a line of cars", either I don't notice any distinctions between the cars, or I discard them as meaningless. The distinctions aren't meaningless in this case.
In all kindness and sincerity, I am sorry, this has become an issue of great importance to you, as it is an important issue. As a person who values your opinion, let me clarify all I have said for the purpose of illustrating your points better. The follow comments have spanned across my many posts which I will put here for easy of reading.

a) I agree with you,
b) can't give you and answer concerning how domestic violence does or doesn't play in the thread, ask Mark.
c) per your other concerns addressing domestic violence, I was only repeating what the news reports said, best to ask the reporters those questions to get the answers as I don't have them.
d) I don't know if Mark intended to include domestic violence, if he did my answer to his question then would be I don't prepare at all. And, I don't know if domestic violence is or isn't important to the thread.
e) most of all, the topic of domestic violence isn't something I am an expert at, thus be able to discuss in this sense.

Also I don't know why the reporters called that sad and horrible act an act of domestic violence, and others not. All I did was give you my best guess cause you asked so passionately. I call that horrible and sad event senseless,unnecessary, heart wrenching.

In my book it was simply nothing more than murder like any other murder. What makes it even more sad, is that a family was attack where members died at the hands of someone they knew. Because that hits home stronger than per se a stranger attacking a family. Or a hidden freeway sniper, or someone walking into a building and randomly like Brenda Ann Spencer or that like what happened at Columbine. Or why someone breaks into a home killing everyone inside (apparently not so uncommon). I don't know any of the whys of any of these horrible and deranged acts. I lump such violent acts into one thing, called murder. How labels are parsed out, how each is defined separate from another is something I have control over or is something am I interested in doing.

For me, the horrible act of murder be it from someone the victims know tends to hit home harder that if it was by a stranger. I don't think anyone wants to be killed by a madman whether they know him/her or not, whether the police or the news stamps it as domestic violence, or a random shooting, or what have you. Even more so how it is being argued here, I think has little importance to the fact that people are murdered sitting down at a meal, and the whole family was shoot, which included children. As most of us, we can put ourselves in that situation, as we have or are a part of a family, and that makes us feel very scared and vulnerable. More so because it isn't a random act. There are no odds in place when someone you know (and all its complexity) points a gun at you and your family and pulls the trigger. That is based on the feeling of all those I have talked to about this, and my own personal "what if" feelings.

Mary, I respect your concerns and I have no contentions or opinion concerning them. You're not getting any argument from me.

Personally, I don't know the constructs of how this would or wouldn't play in the discussion. Simply, those are my feelings as described here in this post. I am not able to determine what definitions and labels should be placed on someone killing their family members, people they know or randomly shooting anyone in their line of sight( they have to be mentally ill imo to do so). I don't have the knowledge or expertise, or interest to do so, that isn't what concerns me. All I know and concerned about is it was a sad, tragic, horrific,senseless act of murder. My heart goes out to the surviving victims and their friends and loved ones.

I am sorry to repeat this, but for the sake of the thread, I don't plan for any one, regardless if I know them or not, shooting me. It is too difficult and too many variable to cover. You can't sanely live your life worrying about who is going to shoot you. Unless, you see the signs, or are threaten, etc. by people you know or don't know. As far as I know, I have no strong indications of that happening in my life, to warrant concern.

But on the other hand, and now that I think about it, what is more likely is some people you may come across gets really unreasonable, irrational, becomes emotionally unbalanced over a comment, an opinion, a verbal disagreement, a gesture, a look, or simply by your appearance. And as a result, not matter what you do to reverse that situation wants to kill you and all members of your family. That is the risk we all take when we have contact with people. That is something I can plan, prepare and act on. Not that is will many any difference with someone who is mentally ill.

Mary, I hope this has helped lay things out in addressing your concerns that I am not debating you or contesting your comments or views in relation to the constructs of domestic violence in relation to this thread. I hear ya, I agree with you, I understand where your points are coming from as you articulated them very well. I respect all that. And I am glad you have posted to me, as your content in this thread brings up some very good questions, points, and presents very good information that I am sure will help others.

In all sincerity,

Last edited by Buck : 06-21-2010 at 10:33 AM.
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