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Old 07-13-2004, 11:14 AM   #8
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,615
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Re: What's that with Aikiken and Aikijo?

Quote:
So, again, I don't get the point of aikiken and aikijo. Why do we do this (besides a "tradition", because late O-Sensei did much with bokken and jo?
Well, for some, 'its a tradition' is enough.

Quote:
And if it is so important, why aren't there (much) sword and stick techniques in eg. Shodokan or Yoshinkan?
Well, some yoshinkan schools (Doshinkan, Yoshokai, some others) do quite a bit of buki waza (my particular teacher gives me a funny look when I call buki waza 'weapons').

Quote:
{1}And, if the sword and stick art is very important to aikido (why ever), why don't just practice kendo, iaido and jodo for a while (ok, I find it not very tempting, because kendo is too much bamboo striking and iaido is good but for me in this strong fixation on single kata too boring, personally I need a little bit more parter practice).

{2}Or, maybe the better way, why is there no "real" sword and stick art incorporated into aikido (e.g. katori-shinto-ryu kumitachi etc.), if it is so important and vital?
{1} Well, kendo has its own objectives, as does iaido, or koryu swords arts, or jodo. So practicing those arts, while probably beneficial, might very well introduce and develop principles contradictory to your aikido. Of course, if you choose to do that and are able to keep them separate, no problem. Others might not like it though.

{2} Well, there are some branches of aikido that have done just that, for instance, the yoshinkan has modified the kendo no kata for use in aikido, and other branches have taken kata from katori shinryu and other koryu. But usually proponants from those koryu have noted that the true principles of their art are lost when that happens.

Quote:
Overall, it seems to be a unsatisfying problem, because there are some local dojo here in Germany, where the teacher try to get into katori-shinto-ryu (sugino line) for weapons work (which is fascinating for itself).
The Sugino line should be a good match, since he was quite adept at aikido as well.

As for your overall question, I don't think there is an easy answer. The best one I have been able to come up with is this:

John Stevens teaches the aikido taught to him by Rinjiro Shirata Sensei. It is one part body art, one part ken, and one part jo. It seems to hang together as a complete system to me...the sword kata are used directly as empty hand kata. The riai (underlying principles) are the same throughout the system. I saw Stevens Sensei teach parts of this in a dojo this past weekend that has a lot of exposure to sword technqiue. I saw no one laughing. In fact, they seemed to appreciate it and have asked for Stevens Sensei to return and teach again.

I myself practice regularly in the yoshinkan. There the methods are slightly different, but I think the overall perspective is much the same. The idea is a connection with the tradition of the founder, a connection between the way aikido uses the sword and the body, and the jo as well. It is NOT a classical system like the koryu. At their best, aiki ken and aiki jo function as part of a whole that is as much misogi as budo. They function very well in this context in the right hands. It would be better probably if aikidoka had more exposure to both competitive systems like kendo and classical systems like katori shinto ryu for a feel of how systems like that work. It would be a good informational base, and teach good understanding of some principles that we often miss without even knowing it.

I might also add that most of the early students of the founder HAD that kind of experience already when they came to aikido. That probably is one of the biggest factors in their success.

Last edited by Ron Tisdale : 07-13-2004 at 11:17 AM.

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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