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Old 12-18-2015, 05:01 PM   #6
Paul Sanderson-Cimino
Dojo: Yoshokai; looking into judo
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 434
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Re: Origins of Yoshinkan bokken/jo techniques?

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
You got any video links handy?
Surprisingly, and quite disappointingly, I am utterly unable to find any clips online, even though there have been a number of recorded demonstrations. I'm disappointed in that, so far as my "lay" eye could assess, Kushida-sensei was quite skillful in buki-waza. (I actually have a hunch that he may have invented a significant part of the Yoshinkan weapons curriculum; he had a family sword style, and I've heard that one of his children was menkyo'd in some koryu kenjutsu.)

The best I can do, sadly, is a random clip from someone's nidan test, with obnoxious music (yes, Chumbawumba) playing in the background. But I guess it's better than nothing.

From that video:
I also threw together a simple imgur album from their Facebook page.

I'll put in an inquiry on Facebook to see if they moved their videos elsewhere. Maybe they're cleaning it all up into a "prettier" format, and plan to post it on the site?

Quote:
John Hillson wrote: View Post
I am not familiar with the names of the forms above, but I will say that Tomiki Aikido has some sword work in their kata that appears similar in appearance to what I have seen Shioda do in some clips.

The earliest clip of an Aikido person using a jo that I have seen was a Yoshinkan person. Work with law enforcement was a Yoshinkan focus, and the Jo was already an optional weapon for the police is my understanding. I've wondered if maybe it was Shioda who brought the Jo into Aikido.

Sources older than Post War like the Asahi News video or Budo don't reference the Jo at all. These sources reference rifle and bayonet, or sometimes spear.

Aikijo is different from koryu jo, and different from the jo work of Kanai, Chiba, Shirata, Tohei, and others. I hear different thoughts on how much was Saito's creation, but he certainly created most of the system and he never started training until postwar. I've not made an effort to compare the sword in Taigi to Aikiken but Tohei, the second Doshu, and Saito apparently trained together in Iwama.

A running theme among Morihei Ueshiba's students is that they were exposed to a great deal but not taught systematically. I'm guessing Shioda or his inner circle composed any forms for Yoshinkan.
My hunch is that it probably came from somewhere other than Shioda himself.

Quote:
John Hillson wrote: View Post
https://vimeo.com/12791945

Not Shioda, but is this what is being referred to?

To compare to Shodokan's one kata

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vPeDuFlRAzQ

Kawahara Sensei did do some longer partner practices with weapons, but really I remember stuff that was more similar to these clips.
That ju no kumitachi looks identical. In Yoshokai, I believe it's one of the very first white belt techniques, after four cuts with bokken. (Which is front strike, waist/wrist strike (deep), raise bokken up to that forward-pointing diagonal parry, pivot on balls of feet into jodan the other direction, repeat.)

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
I train Yagyu Shinkage ryu and can say that (1), (3), and (4) all sound like techniques we have, though I am very vague on what to picture as (3).
You know, I do remember Yagyu Shinkage-ryu being mentioned. But that's a very faint recollection.

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
(1) is, I am fairly positive about this, also practiced in Katori Shinto ryu. If (3) is what I think it is, it probably boils down to something in Katori Shinto ryu also. Yagyu Shinkage ryu essentially gets these from Katori, though that's through the founder himself who was licensed in Katori in the late 1500s.
To clarify (3), I think I wrote it as cross-step above, but now that I think about it I believe it was always a shuffle-step, i.e., a step with the front foot.

Both people in right-stance kamae. Cross the tips of the bokken. Shite (used as the term for nage/tori in Yoshokai) tilts bokken to the left. (I'm kind of stylizing/mangling this to explain it in text.) Shite sinks weight down while shifting body from square-on toward the left, and steps in with the front foot, creating a sort of C shape movement laterally. Bokken tip comes up to uke's chest/neck. It's basically the standard Yoshinkan shuffle-step-body-change basic movement, with a sword.

Anyway, yeah, I'll see if I can ask someone back at the Genyokan.
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