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Old 09-30-2008, 03:45 PM   #103
Jim Sorrentino
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Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia, Aikido Shobukan Dojo
Location: Washington, DC
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Re: How Long and In What Manner to Great Mastery?

Hello Mark,
Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
1. Push test. Ueshiba had people push on him often and with everything they could muster. That is not arguable. It happened. Ueshiba's students said it in interviews, Ueshiba is interviewed talking about it, Ueshiba demonstrates on video, and As Takahashi stated it on a Youtube video. No one could push him over. No one with any kind of jujutsu or judo or sumo or kendo could push him over. Theoretically, that says that there is something different that Ueshiba did that the others, who had these backgrounds, could not.
And yet nobody suggested that Ueshiba should enter the sumo world and compete --- they all seemed to accept that he and his art did not have to "prove" themselves in that arena. What do you make of that?

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
The push test here is indicative of some specific skill. Does that specific skill relate to #1 above? Theoretically, I believe it does. But, more research was needed.
And what of Ueshiba's (or Sagawa's or Kodo's or Takeda's) other skills? They were all more than "guys who could pass the push test".

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
3. Dan has a teaching methodology that creates strong (budo strong) students in 3-5 years and it just progresses from there. The skills he has can be taught and in a short (relatively in the martial world *and* with the student putting in the solo and paired work) time.
Please describe this methodology. In the past, Dan seemed to suggest that he would develop a unique training program for each person who came to him to study.

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
1B. Someone else who trained under Ueshiba stated that what Dan was doing was what Ueshiba did.
Who? How long did he or she "train under Ueshiba"? When? When did he or she see Dan and make this pronouncement? If you can't (or won't) answer these questions, please don't bother to cite this as support. Argument from anonymous authority is worthless --- and you may quote me on that.

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
It's hard to argue with 4th degrees to 6th degrees about what constitutes aikido.
Oh, come on --- we do it all the time! That's one of the charms of the internet!

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
20 plus years of training. Yet, the greats never trained that long to be strong. What was it that was missed?
Just for starters, the "greats": 1) trained obsessively, maniacally, to the exclusion of normal relationships with others; 2) lived far more physically challenging lives than the average post-war, Western aikidoka; and 3) practiced frequently with kohai, sempai and sensei who were quite skilled themselves.

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
3B. If you do the research, you can find where Dan trained, who he trained with, and what school. I'll give you a hint -- DR.
With most of us, there is no need for someone to "do the research". Instead, (with apologies to Dan) a simple, straightforward exchange is sufficient: "Hi, my name is ___. I practice ____. I started training with ____ in 19 (or 20)__." But that would be so ordinary...

See you on the mat eventually ---

Jim
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