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Old 07-03-2007, 02:29 PM   #1192
ChrisMoses
Dojo: TNBBC (Icho Ryu Aiki Budo), Shinto Ryu IaiBattojutsu
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 927
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Re: Baseline skillset

Quote:
Chhi'mčd Künzang wrote: View Post
I thought Mike was trying to be precise. I read him as saying that *based on his reading of Chris' past statements* he thought it unlikely that Chris was also already engaged in a full-blown 'silk-reeling' practice. He laid out a specific line of reasoning to back that assertion, and I saw no concrete challenge to that reasoning (from anyone).
Look, I'm not going to qualify every comment I make with a full exposition so that Mike Sigman can give me a pat on the head. I did point out that Mike has never seen my sword style, ever. I very well may be wrong, and I may not be in a position to make the statement that I did, but Mike is in LESS of a position to say that I am flat out *wrong*. He could have come forward and said something like, "Hmm, gosh Chirs I'd be shocked if you had progressed enough to have mastered silk reeling and even more shocked that a Japanese sword art would have the practice. I'd love to see it if it were true, but I'm pretty skeptical..." That would have been perfectly reasonable, and a reasonable place to begin a discussion. It was not my claim that I was a master of silk reeling or that what my sword line did was identical to silk reeling in all of its detail. Instead though, I am simply wrong. Now, for Mike to be able to state that with the certainty that he did, he would need to have some level of familiarity with my sword art. He does not, there are 12 of us in the US (only about 7 of us know the kata), and the kata in question are from our inside series that are not generally performed outside of the school. If what he meant by 'wrong' was not in a position to comment, that's different, and I did ask what he considered to be the minimum level of mastery over a subject he considered a minimum in order to comment, so far I have not seen a direct reply other than to offer my detailed description up for his vetting. I'm not going to play that game. Why? Because he gets offended when people take the same tactic with him (wrt his Aikido training or familiarity with Japanese budo, and I don't count karate in that) and it is suddenly a personal attack. Another reason? I have never seen anyone meet a level of clarity such that he conceded their point or acknowledged the legitimacy of their view, even when they are agreeing with his position. This is the kind of relationship I would expect in a teacher-student, master-disciple relationship. My teachers do this a lot in class, they ask someone what they are doing in order to gage their comprehension of that thing. I have no problem with it there, because we have a unified terminology and the benefit of tactile feedback and there is the possibility and expectation that you may be correct. I have never seen anyone (with the exception of the mighty Bruce) attempt to take that same tone with an entire forum. It is not acceptable. A lot of people have this same view, but are too scared or too classy to say anything about it on the forums (I know, because I get emails and PMs from people all over the country after these kinds of interactions thanking me for saying what I did). I have attempted to point out inconsistencies in what Mike expects of others and what he considers acceptable for himself, tried humor, I've even paraphrased him back to himself (I'm even wrong then!). I simply do not understand the rules of discourse he wants to use (except that of master-student, and I'm not willing to agree to those rules). I'm not being sarcastic in the slightest when I say that it's genuinely too bad. I like to learn, I like to discuss and I'm about as far from an Aikikai party-liner as you're likely to find, but at the end of the day, it seems to be more trouble than it's worth.

The fact that David is arguing on my behalf should tell you something, it's like when Greenpeace and the Teamsters were marching arm in arm against the WTO.

Chris Moses
TNBBC, "Putting the ME in MEdiocre!"
Budo Tanren at Seattle School of Aikido
Shinto Ryu Iai-Battojutsu
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