Thread: Ogawa Ryu ?
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Old 10-01-2007, 06:36 AM   #22
Budd
 
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Re: Ogawa Ryu ?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Hi big guy
Hmmm.....cute
But more and more people today wouldn't even get the joke. "Case by case" as a qualifier for lying, at least for me, is part and parcel to the situational ethics and the acceptance of lying I was talking about. I reject it. If we sat and yakked a bit I could outline a few personal experiences. Including some rather hilarious, and easy to unravel lies from Budo teachers. Were one to really get down to it lying reveals personality flaws. Why lie?
Agreed completely. I think anyone that's been doing this stuff for a bunch of years - with an eye towards results rather than belonging/status - has some stories/experiences. Though I look forward to the next time we get to sit and yak (following other fun stuff no doubt ).

I also think it's a carryover from older times whereby you apprenticed/indentured yourself. In this case, you might willfully put yourself in the hands of a master in order to better "learn". People on a basic level know that to do anything well you have to commit 100%. Other people on a basic level know that if you get people to do that, they're easier marks to take advantage of (think cults and breaking down individuality).

The con man knows that to sell the con you have to create all of the trappings. I'm sure plenty of times that it's not done out of malice, but even good intentions . . . . you know where that can lead. Or as Sinclair also said, "I aimed at the public's heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach."

A big problem is the average person isn't going to have a frame of reference to make an educated choice. Look at all the folks here that are still talking about ki/kokyu/bodyskills when I'd be willing to take odds that people aren't talking about the same thing. Yet, it becomes a status-self worth-reassurance game to say, "We already do that". (nevermind the additional need to train with people that aren't going to just fall and offer "intelligent resistance" - I'd take odds on what people consider "intelligent resistance" as well)

I was recently watching the Pirates of Penzance movie and was struck by two parts:

1) Ruth apprenticing Frederic to the Pirates because she misunderstood his father's wishes (instead of apprenticing him to a ship's "pilot", she apprenticed him to a "pirate"). How much misunderstood stuff might be done in today's martial practices because of a misunderstanding/misrepresentation of the original intent?

MMA is at least honest about constantly testing and reinventing itself. I think practitioners of more traditional arts may do the same thing, but whether they're as honest about it is another question.

2) The scene in the beginning where Frederic is taking the boat to civilization. He is still with Ruth because he wants to believe that she is a beautiful woman (she hasn't tried to dissuade him of this notion either). When he finally sees the Major General's daughters on the beach, he realizes that he'd made a judgement based on not having any real comparative information. Hurt feelings and harsh words abound. If you've trained in something for years and committed to it, only to find that there's been a fundamental dishonesty (by the fault of you and/or others), there's going to be some subsequent ill will.

Of course, maybe I'm just reading into it too much, but I think both parts may have equal relevance to the discussion.

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