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Old 08-13-2007, 03:34 PM   #18
bob_stra
Location: Australia
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 641
Australia
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Re: Feldenkrais, Nature and Martial Response

Hey Mike, how you doing? Long time no see

So I'm doing my periodic lurkings here when I stumble upon this post. As a Feldenkrais practitioner, you just know I can't well enough leave alone

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
A lot of this discussion is (from Erick, me, Feldenkrais, Tohei, Inaba, Abe, Ushiro, etc.) our attempts at "how to do it". Although to be precise, I think Erick is offering something quite different from what the rest of us are talking about, so let me put that one to the side. But even if Erick were talking about the same thing, his approach would not, in my opinion, be of any value to anyone other than him. You can't learn anything from mathematical descriptions of physical concepts. You couldn't, for instance, learn how to ride a bicycle by arguing that it had to do with angular momentum (it does), so the question is how to you find words, buzzwords, and phrases that will most succinctly convey learning insights to the person listening to you.
Zero disagreement. One could describe bike riding quite well from the p.o.v. of angular momentum and completely FAIL to convey the sense of bike riding, because such an explanation is not concrete in the physical, kinaesthetic experience. Instead, it uses cerebral language to describe a physical act after that fact. Not quite useless but certainly missing the point

Quote:
Upon reading some of Feldenkrais' books/stories, I feel that he did indeed try to formulate and articulate some portion of ki-related movements in his ideas.
Indeed - he seemed to know a thing or two on the topic

http://judoforum.com/index.php?showtopic=11623

Quote:
Feldenkrais practitioners that I've felt in my life. He didn't understand the concept of yi/intent to form the paths of power with the mind.
Woah, woah woah...

I don't want to be "that guy" but I believe you are wrong on this one, and, what's more fun, I can prove it.

Book
Awareness through movement
Lesson 8 - "Perfecting the Self image"

Further - here is a lesson on force transmission from ground through pelvis to head (ignore the blather that introduces it ; I dunno why he writes that stuff). Try it and tell me what you think

http://www.flowingbody.com/low30.htm

You will find "Awareness Through Movement" in most libraries. I could make a good argument that Lesson 8 is all about "finding new pathways for movement by use of the mind". A very, very good argument, seeing that more than half of the lesson is done 'in the imagination'.

Now, if you want to argue that that doesn't qualify it as 'yi'...well...you'll have to tell me what you mean by yi.

Quote:
None of his practitioners that I've felt had any idea about this either.
Maybe in a martial context. But the "hold hand this way, apply force, connect to different bodypart and cause it to move" as per end of this this video -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InlQtTMK5Ys

was shown to me by Alyn Zones not that long ago. On a good day, I have some small success mimicking it. I'm willing to bet Elizabeth Beringer could put a more martial context on it (see here for bio's)

http://www.feldenkraistrainingprograms.com/Trainers.htm

Oh and the whole pinky thing Kuroda sensei is doing? I have pictures of feldenkrais doing the same pinky wrestling thing in standing and can provide a scan thereof.

So, yeah - "passion on behalf of my medium" aside...*shrugs* I'll calm down now and go back to lurking.

Mostly I wanna see what happens with this thread

http://judoforum.com/index.php?showtopic=19177&hl=
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