Thread: Ki is Kindness.
View Single Post
Old 12-13-2010, 01:31 PM   #44
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
Re: Ki is Kindness.

Jon Reading wrote: View Post
In elaborating on your original point, I think you are still missing some elements of evidential support to support your claims. It sounds like you dismiss the need for evidential support, citing instead the need to (ahhhh) "feel it":

But the point is you can confirm strawberries taste sweet; the point of contention would be how sweet and what flavor of sweetness. For the sake of your argument, I am willing to concede that ki exists as an energy form. However, I think you do not built a case sufficient to explain how ki can possess a trait (kindness). Kindness is a emotive state of being. You do not explain how ki, conditional upon accepting it possesses a emotive state, can possess a singular emotion (positive in connotation). This is (I think) what some of the other posters are hinting at... Your interpretation of ki is somewhat different than most and asserted without any supporting evidence. Which is fine, but your posts imply you derived your comments from some factual base that you are withholding from this thread.

Secondly, O'Sensei simply did not say many things attributed to him. In these paraphrases, most often his comments were translated to English, then interpreted in their meaning; sometimes both being performed by the same person. I would expect that in interpreting O'Sensei's teachings, you should at least provide the paraphrase or quote used in your interpretation. Again, your posts imply that you have confirmed factual quotations and historical information from OSensei that support your position but you are withholding this information as well.

Your beliefs are your own. But I think if you choose to share them as part of a discussion you would like to share how you arrived at your educated decisions.

Preaching is the presentation of [religious] doctrine, a sermon. This is a tongue and cheek comment to raise caution about presenting an idea for discussion to a group of like-minded individuals who will not questions the statements validity (as in "preaching to the choir" to describe the preacher speaking to the only regular members in church...the choir). If you choose to present and idea as fact beyond your group of like-minded individuals, you should darn well be able to back up that comment.

Good luck.
Hello Jon.
I am, I must admit, getting used to this 'presenting an argument' point of view and the giving of evidential support based on what someone else said in the past. However I have pointed out an interview given by O'Sensei in which he answers very specific questions and gives very specific answers.

Now people who say that there could be mistranslation or misinterpretation on that interview due to the language I find that quite absurd.

Firstly, there may be a chance on certain words being misunderstood but in that interview he answers many things which I hear people still debating today.

Secondly, a translator would almost certainly have a good understanding of not only the language and it's nuances but also of the context of the sentence and so would invariably get it right.

Thirdly, surely it's more logical to first accept it as it is stated, then practice and apply it in other words test it to see if it is true or valid or useful.

As to me assetrting without too much evidential support well I am probably more guilty of that than not.

I tend to write with the sword so to speak. I tend to write as I teach. I am used to saying a way of doing something or saying what something is based on and then letting people try it from that viewpoint and compare it to what they are used to, to inspect it for themselves.

My posts may imply I have some secret confirmed evidence of what O'Sensei said or that I have something I'm not sharing, well I do but the funny thing is it's not a secret.

I have done everything some people accused me of not doing. For example, I used to train four times a week, super physically and probably harder than most of those who talk about sweat and hardness. I say that with confidence because I have been there in fact I had to train hard until I was exhausted and had no physical energy left and then to be told now we learn about ki, now your lesson begins.

I learned physical movements and techniques. I learned Aikido Motions as different to technique, ie: tenkan, tai-sabake, irimi. I learned then from the view of energy and space ie: circles, spirals, sphere, lines, spirals, gravity (weight underside), center, center line, blending, leading, meeting etc. How this all fits together and how to apply it.

O.K. Now we come to what I feel it is that gives this impression of me knowing what O'Sensei meant or said.

I obviously went through many phases of understanding but I always would go back to looking at how O'Sensei did it compared to others that followed. I would go back and look at what he meant by love and kindness and harmony and no enemies etc.etc. etc. Do you want to know how I found my answers?

When I started looking from spiritual views and how they fitted in with physical and mental and energy and motion and conflict and life and started understanding then what O'Sensei meant.

Therefore I put it to you (oh dear, this is starting to look like an intellectual argument) that my mention of spiritual puts some people off and that my evidence is my experience and my ability and so I can only teach what I know and say what I know but I never say it'sahhhh feel.

Here's a thought for you. In all of my posts no one ever asked me a question from the viewpoint that I knew more than them or equally as much as them. They either put down what I said or challenged it for the most part which believe it or not I was surprised by. I have stated I have spiritual construct, principles which can be practiced but no one asked what they are. I have stated that there is a spiritual side, a mental side and a physical side to all techniques and principles in Aikido but I work from the view that when someone asks specifically on one aspect of Aikido and how that applies to that one thing then they are not ready for any more explanation.

This is either arrogant, stupid or wise on my part, but so be it.

So I would prefer if someone said I tried nikkyo today and looked at what purpose I was doing it from and then I tried doing it from the purpose of being kind, a DEFINITE kindness. I would be interested in the result. No debate, no argument, just test and result. I would have to write a book to explain in detail and unfortunately this is only a forum.

Thanks anyway, it's all good. G.
  Reply With Quote